Arakidonsyra

[demode]

Ursprungligen postat av Eddie Vedder

Det är lite extra fett vi pratar om här, tror knappast det gör att du vaknar mitt i natten för attd et bränns i dina muskler.

Som sagt, ett litet tillskott av fett. Kan säkert inverka positivt i längden men jag har mycket svårt att tro att just arakidonsyran skulle åstadkomma det där.

Det är sanning, det händer endast när jag tar två på samma gång innan läggdags. Tro vad du vill. Sist fick jag stanna hemma från jobb för att jag inte kunde somna om efter att jag vaknat, alldeles för varm.

edit: inget annat jag äter kan ha den biverkningen (havregrynsgröt, proteinpulver, kreatin).

[Runda Grodan]

Ursprungligen postat av Eddie Vedder

Det är lite extra fett vi pratar om här, tror knappast det gör att du vaknar mitt i natten för attd et bränns i dina muskler.

Som sagt, ett litet tillskott av fett. Kan säkert inverka positivt i längden men jag har mycket svårt att tro att just arakidonsyran skulle åstadkomma det där.

För vad det kan vara värt så är insomningssvårigheter ganska vanligt förekommande om man läser loggar av folk som kör med X-Factor. Varför det skulle vara så har jag heller ingen aning om.



Edit. Missade att det handlade om "en brännande känsla" i musklerna.

[reactor]

Ursprungligen postat av Eddie Vedder

Det är lite extra fett vi pratar om här, tror knappast det gör att du vaknar mitt i natten för attd et bränns i dina muskler.

Som sagt, ett litet tillskott av fett. Kan säkert inverka positivt i längden men jag har mycket svårt att tro att just arakidonsyran skulle åstadkomma det där.

Är på min andra burk nu. Ja det ger en sjuk Träningsvärk. Kan mkt väl tänka mig att det kan upplevas som bränande. På mig blir det nästan som muskel kramper.
Alla biverkningarna ligger för mig åt det hållet. Inte exakt likadant men nära.
Även insomnings svårigheter och vaknar ofta flera ggr under natten.
Och det är ju många som vittnar om liknande biverkningar.

Mvh R

[reactor]

Bifogar denna FAQ skriven på ett annat forum.
"1. What is X factor

X factor is the name for arachidonic acid, an essential fatty acid normally stored in cell membranes that is responsible for signaling adaptive changes in response to stress and other stimuli.

2. What does it do?

Prostaglandins from X factor are intimately involved with protein synthesis and hypertrophy after exercise (1,2) . Arachidonic acid also is correlated with improved insulin sensitivity (3), satellite cell activation and proliferation (4), cell regeneration and repair (5) , and increases Nitric oxide formation in the muscle being trained. Other benefits include possible long term improvement in vascularity via stimulation of angiogenesis (6) in muscles being trained, PPAR beta/delta agonist properties (7) (increase Uncoupling proteins for a thermogenic effect), and inhibition of stearoyl-CoA desaturase-1 (8) (which is strongly correlated with negative partitioning in humans therefore paving the way for body composition improvement). On top of all this it inhibits resistin (9) which may have further benefits as far as insulin control goes.

3. How does it accomplish this?

When the muscle is stimulated by anaerobic metabolism (ie, muscle contraction) arachidonic acid is released from the muscle cell wall by phospholipase A2. Once released arachidonic acid interacts with the COX-2 enzyme forming prostaglandins such as PGF 2 alpha and PGE2. It is these prostaglandins that instruct the cell to increase protein synthesis and other beneficial responses to exercise.

4. Are there other reasons I should take it?

Muscle is not just protein and amino acids. There actually is a plasma membrane cell wall that needs to surround the contractile protein. The type of fatty acids (preferably essential fatty acids like x factor) determine the responsiveness of the skeletal muscle as unit to various signals. That is why this product is so "core" to the muscle building process and has effects above and beyond what protein can do.

5. Is it safe?

Yes, as a matter of fact it is a component of Baby food. Studies using up to 1.5 grams of Arachidonic acid per day for 50 days have shown no ill effects. (10,11,12) Our own study at one gram per day also showed no ill effects. (13) As a matter of fact x factor showed very strong trends at reducing an important inflammatory marker predictive of total mortality. The marker reduced was IL-6 while corn oil (another omega 6) meanwhile had no effect (14) So X factor may very well have a protective benefit.

6. Are their side effects?

Some people notice sore joints, headaches, insomnia. Others haven't notice any side effects.

7. What about these "bad prostaglandins" I have been hearing x factor makes?

"Bad prostaglandins" stimulate and lower cAMP and make platelets sticky when anaerobic metabolism is stimulated (like when a blood vessel cuts cut). In someone active and training "anaerobically"they are useful for improving glycogen synthesis (directly in the muscle) Why? Because cAMP phsophorylates glycogen synthetase and thus inactivates it. So you definitely need some "bad" prostaglandins if you are physically active and want to maximize glycogen synthesis.

Now.....

In someone sedentary they don't have active muscles so in general they are anaerobic everywhere due to the hyperinsulinemia. So pretty everywhere in there body is getting hit hard (which is the opposite in someone training.) That is in general the paradox here and this probably explains why in someone training X factor lowers IL-6 ( which comes from hyperinsulinemia )

8. How much do I take and when?

A: You take 1000mg the arachidonic acid (found in X factor) in divided doses. Each capsule contains 250mg AA. Ideally this total daily dose should be divided up into 3-4 doses during the day. Because insomnia has been reported we don't recommend you take the last dose close to bedtime.

9. Is it best to take x-factor with food or on an empty stomach or doesn't it matter?

A: Most likely taking it with food (particularly some fat) results in better bioavailability.

10. Can I take higher amounts of it for periods shorter than 50 days?

You could, but whether it works better or not is unknown. We ask that your first cycle is at the recommended 750-1000mg dose level for 50 days and if you respond well allow you to consider up to 1500mg for 50 days or 1000 mgs for 75 days as an option.

11. Anything I should avoid while taking x factor

NSAIDS are to be ideally avoided due to their direct effects on inhibiting the COX enzyme (central to the mechanism by which x factor works). However it may be that taking NSAIDS at certain times is worse than others with respect to muscle building. Certainly if you have a headache and are known to respond to NSAIDs you could probably take the medication without interference.

12. Do I need to eliminate everything that is anti-inflammatory?

No. The only anti-inflammatory in the literature (so far) known to have adverse effects on x factor's benefit in skeletal muscle are NSAIDs (or its herbal equivalent white willow bark) due to their direct effect on the COX enzyme. Indirect anti-inflammatory products (which many products claim as a side benefit) most likely have no effect on what x factor does. Actually some of the benefits of arachidonic acid appear to be through reduction of systemic oxidative stress/insulin levels (provided the muscle is active) which ironically may actually reduce COX-2 in non muscle tissues. So all this stuff can be in the same ballpark.

13. Do I need to avoid fish entirely?

You should still eat fish. In fact low dose supplementation of fish oil (2-3 capsules) does not appear to affect the effectiveness of X factor. The good thing is that in that in some cases the clinical benefits of fish oil appear to be directly tied to increases in cell membrane arachidonic acid. This is great news for the future of this supplement.

14. Are there any particular foods I should be eating to make the product better?

Focus on nutrient dense whole foods (basically your typical Body building diet) that have various minerals/vitamins/anti-oxidants in them. Possibly magnesium rich foods may hold some promise for some (spinach, brown rice, etc)

15. Can I use creatine with x factor?

You should always use creatine with x factor (whether it is CEE or some other type of creatine really doesn't matter)

This is because arachidonic acid is involved with skeletal muscle insulin sensitivity (2) and may very well be involved with the insulin secretion curve as well. So you might as well take advantage of this opporunity and use creatine (since its transported by insulin) otherwise you waste a chance at some extra synergy.

16. How about Nitric oxide products? Can I use those with x factor?

Yes! As a matter of fact blocking Nitric oxide (with a nitric oxide inhibitor, L-NAME) affected protein synthesis in the same way as taking NSAIDS did. Nitric oxide also uses COX-2 for its effects on protein synthesis (2)

Some people report the pumps being pretty heavy with X factor when combined with NO products so you should only add one at a time to see how it affects you first.

17. Any type of workout program that works best with x factor?

X factor works well with any training program. However, you may occasionally want to train muscle groups from different angles to tap into some of the AA in the more rested fibers. According to a couple of abstracts, a greater PGF 2 alpha response (therefore more anabolic) was found in fibers that were previously more rested/stabilized. (15)

18. Is there anyone who should not take X factor?

Anyone with a inflammatory condition or family history of inflammatory condition should not take x factor.

19. How much time off between cycles?

Take as much time off as you were on. So if you took x factor 50 days then take at least 50 days off.

20. Can I use anti-oxidants with x factor?

That would be a good idea. As a matter of fact beneficial PGF 2 alpha responses seem to be correlated with glutathione and resting cell membrane stability. (16)

21. Is PCT required?

No. Arachidonic acid does not cause any type of rebound effect upon discontinuation.

22. Is it safe for women to take?

Yes. Arachidonic acid has been taken by men and women for thousands of years. In fact, wild cattle and pigs have approximately 10-12 times more Arachidonic acid (per gram of fat) than the domesticated cattle we are used to eating today. (17)

23. Will x factor cause cancer?

No the ingredient in x factor is not a carcinogen but like other non cancer causing growth promoting agents could be used by an existing tumor

In one study involving the prostate arachidonic acid was observed to cause growth through the PI3K mechanism (PI3K inhibitors blocked growth promoting effects) (18)

PI3K is also the mechanism by which IGF-1 works. So one of the ways x-factor acts as an anabolic is similar to IGF-1.

Other studies have shown stimulation of protein synthesis by arachidonic acid through stimulation of the beta 2 receptor (19, 20) . But stimulation of beta 2 receptors doesn't cause cancer in non cancerous tissues.

Testosterone effects on cancer are analogous to the PI3K and beta 2 mechanisms I just mentioned. It doesn't cause cancer either, but cancer cells will make use of it as a growth promoting agent."

[reactor]

Referenser till perssoner citerade i texten.

Här kommer även referenserna de citerar i texten.

1. Trappe TA, Fluckery JD, White F, Lambert CP, Evans WJ. Skeletal muscle PGF (2) (alpha) and PGE (2) in response to eccentric resistance: influence of ibuprofen acetaminophen. J Clin Endocrinolo Metab, 2001 Oct; 86 (10): 5067-70.

2. Soltov QA, Betters JL, Sellman JE, Lira VA, Long JH, Criswell DS. Ibuprofen inhibits skeletal muscle hypertrophy in rats. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2006 May; 38 (5) : 840-6.

3. Borkman M, Storlien LH, Pan DA, Jenkins AB, Chrisholm DJ, Campbell LV. The relationship between insulin sensitivity and the fatty acid composition of skeletal muscle phospholipids. N Engl J Med. 1993 Jan 28;328(4):238-44

4. Bondesen BA, Mills ST, Pavlath GK. The COX-2 pathway regulates growth of atrophied muscle via multiple mechanisms. Am J Physiol Cell Physiology 2006 Jun; 290(6): C1651-9. Epub 2006 Feb 8.

5. Bondesen BA, Mills ST, Kegley KM, Paylath GK. The COX-2 pathway is essential during early stages of skeletal muscle regeneration. Am J Phsyiol Cell Physiol. 2004 Aug; 287 (2): C475-83 Epub 2004 Apr 14.

6. Tamura K, Sakuri T, Kogo H. Relationship between prostaglandin E2 and vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF) in angiogenesis in human vascular endothelial cells. Vascul Pharmacol. 2006 Jun; 44 (6) : 411-6. Epub 2006 May 2.

7. Chevillotte E, Rieusset J, Roques M, Desage M, Vidal H. The regulation of uncoupling protein-2 gene expression by omega-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids in human skeletal muscle cells involves multiple pathways, including the nuclear receptor peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor beta. J Biol Chem. 2001 Apr 6;276(14):10853-60. Epub 2001 Jan 12.


8. Mutch DM, Grigorov M, Berger A, Fay LB, Roberts MA, Watkins SM, Willaimson G, German JB. An integrative metabolism approach identifies stearoyl-CoA desaturase as a target for an arachidonate-enriched diet.
FASEB J. 2005 Apr;19(6):599-601. Epub 2005 Jan 24.


9. Haugen F, Zahid N, Dalen KT, Hollung K, Nebb HI, Drevon CA. Resistin expression in 3T3-L1 adipocytes is reduced by arachidonic acid. J Lipid Res. 2005 Jan; 46 (1): 143-53. Epub 2004 Oct 16.

10. Nelson GJ, Schmidt PC, Bartolini G, Kelley DS, Kyle D. The effect of dietary arachidonic acid on platelet fatty acid comnposition, and blood coagulation in humans. Lipids. 1997 Apr; 32(4): 421-5.

11. Kelley DS, Taylor PC. Nelson GJ, Schmidt PC, Makey BF, Kyle D. Effects of dietary arachidonic acid on human immune response. Lipids. 1997 Apr; 32(4): 449-56.

12. Nelson GJ, Schmidt PC, Bartolini G, Kelley DS, Phinney SD, Kyle D, Silbermann S, Schaefer FJ. The effect of dietary arachidonic acid on plasma lipoprotein distributions, apoproteins, blood lipid levels, and tissue fatty acid composition in humans. Lipids. 1997 Apr; 32940: 427-33.

13. Wilborn, C, M Roberts, C Kerksick, M Iosia, L Taylor, B Campbell, T Harvey, R Wilson, M. Greenwood, D Willoughby and R Kreider. Changes in whole blood and clinical safety markers over 50 days of concomitant arachidonic acid supplementation and resistance training. Exercise & Sport Nutrition Laboratory, Center for Exercise, Nutrition & Preventive Health Research, Baylor University, Waco, TX 76798-7313.

14. Roberts, M, C Kerksick, L Taylor, M Iosia, B Campbell, C Wilborn, T Harvey, R Wilson, M. Greenwood, D Willoughby and R Kreider. Hormonal and intramuscular adaptations over 50 days of concomitant arachidonic acid supplementation and resistance training. Exercise & Sport Nutrition Laboratory, Center for Exercise, Nutrition & Preventive Health Research, Baylor University, Waco, TX 76798-7313.

15. Young MK, Bocek RM, Herrington PT, Beatty CH. Aging: effects on the prostaglandin production by skeletal muscle of male rhesus monkeys (Macaca mulatta). Mech Ageing Dev. 1981;16(4):345-53.

16. Nowak J, Bohman SO, Alster P, Berlin T, Cronestrand R, Sonnenfeld T. Biosynthesis of prostaglandins in microsomes of human skeletal muscle and kidney. Prostaglandins Leukot Med. 1983 Jul;11(3):269-79.

17. Erasmus, Udo. Fats that heal, Fats that kill. 15th printing. p. 225. Burnaby BC, Canada. Alive books. 2004

18. Hughes-Fulford M, Li CF, Boonyaratanakornkit J. Sarah. Arachidonic acid activates phosphatidylinositol 3-kinase signaling and induces gene expression in prostate cancer. Cancer Res. 2006 Feb 1;66(3):1427-33.

19. kir Y, Plummer HK 3rd, Tithof PK, Williams M, Schuller HM. Beta-adrenergic and arachidonic acid-mediated growth regulation of human breast cancer cell lines. Int J Oncol. 2002 Jul;21(1):153-7.


20. Schuller HM, Plummer HK 3rd, Boschler PN, Dudric P., Bell JL, Harris RE. Co-expression of beta-adrenergic receptors and cyclooxygenase-2 in pulmonary adenocarcinoma. Int J Oncol. 2001 Sep;19(3):445-9

[Coldsmith]

Verkar ju intressant iaf. Dyrt men.

Nån skillnad på "originalet" och eiselts version?

[SweLabs]

Ursprungligen postat av Coldsmith

Verkar ju intressant iaf. Dyrt men.

Nån skillnad på "originalet" och eiselts version?

Ingen skillnad. Så kör på den billigare versionen från Eiselt.

[Coldsmith]

Ursprungligen postat av SweLabs

Ingen skillnad. Så kör på den billigare versionen från Eiselt.

Will do.

Nån mer forskning kring detta? King grub? Vad tror du?

[Snorlös]

Ursprungligen postat av Eddie Vedder

Det uppnådde inte statistisk signifikans, p-värdet var alltså över 0.05 vilket är gränsen för när ett resultat kan anses trovärdigt rent statistiskt.

Ett p-värde på 0.05 innebär med andra ord 5% felmarginal, det innebär att rent statistiskt skulle man få samma resultat 95 gånger om en och samma studie genomförs hundra gånger.

Dit nådde inte just dom resultaten men dom anses trots det ganska intressanta. Jag tycker dock inte det känns som något problem att få i sig ett gram arakidonsyra från kosten varje dag, men det kanske är värt ett test för den som vill.

Jag tror att det här är ett tillskott som om några år kommer att ha samma status som tex Vanadyl sulfat och dylika verkningslösa tillskott som också hypades upp ett tag tills man insåg att "vad fan" här slänger jag ut en massa pengar för något där effekten inte märks över huvud taget.

Kan tillskotts industrin inte koncentrera sig på att forska vidare på varianter av MYO preps istället för en massa skitpreparat som man lurar tonåringarna att lägga studiebidraget på.

(kan tilägga att jag var en av dem som gick på hypen med vanadyl sulfat när det begav sig)

[Aerials]

Ursprungligen postat av Snorlös

Jag tror att det här är ett tillskott som om några år kommer att ha samma status som tex Vanadyl sulfat och dylika verkningslösa tillskott som också hypades upp ett tag tills man insåg att "vad fan" här slänger jag ut en massa pengar för något där effekten inte märks över huvud taget.

Kan tillskotts industrin inte koncentrera sig på att forska vidare på varianter av MYO preps istället för en massa skitpreparat som man lurar tonåringarna att lägga studiebidraget på.

(kan tilägga att jag var en av dem som gick på hypen med vanadyl sulfat när det begav sig)

Motivera gärna varför du tror att det här är ett skittillskott.

[Alzie]

Bump!

Några nya studier på detta ämne? Vad tror ni, slöseri på pengar?

[minitaur]

Lite drygt 3 år den här legat och mognat då....

Vet inte vad gäller forskning på arkakidonnsyra men...
Jag körde en burk ca 50 dagar+ enligt anvisning och märkte absolut ingenting mer än de pengar som försvunnit från mitt konto...

[Mell]

Riktigt skoj att läsa denna tråd efter att ha lyssnat på http://www.body.se/artiklar/radio/20...med-body-radio

Den borde även besvara din fråga Alzie.

[Ola Wallengren]

Här är studien som jag referera till.

https://beardocs.baylor.edu/xmlui/bi...pdf?sequence=1

[Fultjack]

Intressant program på radion Ola!

Någon mer som har testat AA?

Är det någon mer än eiselt som tillverkar någon produkt med samma innehåll?