Träningssnask vid korta pass

[Rataxes]

Ok råkade snappa upp från King Grub att det var tom bättre att käka snabba kolisar och proteiner innan passet än efter, och givetvis optimalt att äta både före och efter. Nu är min fråga om det verkligen lönar sig att äta snabba kolisar/proteiner efter passet om det bara är 20-30 minuter långt? Tränar 5 dar i veckan och bara 1-2 muskelgrupper per tillfälle, 9 set per muskelgrupp, så med 2-3 min mellan seten blir det bara max 30 minuter per träning. Om jag då käkar mina 100 g skumgodisar och 40 g proteiner precis innan passet, räcker inte det till efter passet också?

[King Grub]

Det är när det gäller korta pass det verkligen lönar sig, eftersom du får insulin/glukos/aminosyrecombon under hela passet. Däremot behöver du inte äta så mycket kolhydrat innan. Inte efter heller, när passet är så kort. Du kan ta hälften före och hälften efter. Proteinmängden kn du däremot behålla, både före och efter. Och druvsocker är effektivare än godis.

[Rataxes]

Uppfattat, blir det inte en jävla massa protein på ett sånt kort tidspann dock? 80 g är mer än halva mitt dagsintag av protein, och under knappt 30 min ;) Hur mycket sämre är egentligen skumgodis jämfört med druvsocker? Det är väl inga vassle > kesella skillnader du talar om?

[King Grub]

Uppfattat, blir det inte en jävla massa protein på ett sånt kort tidspann dock? 80 g är mer än halva mitt dagsintag av protein, och under knappt 30 min

Säg 30/30 då, eller 30/25, eller något liknande. Du äter väl mat någon timme senare, så det fungerar alldeles utmärkt.

Hur mycket sämre är egentligen skumgodis jämfört med druvsocker?

Ett insulinindex på runt 100 jämfört med 140 och alldeles för mycket fruktos i godiset.

Det är väl inga vassle > kesella skillnader du talar om?

Nej, men säg vassle - kött, om man nu kan jämföra på det sättet. Skillnaden är signifikant i alla fall.

[Rataxes]

Håhå jaja, får väl ta och införskaffa druvsocker då. Päronen kommer tro man har fått träning på hjärnan när man köper in så mycket "udda preparat" som de kallar det ;)

[B-jay]

Originally posted by Rataxes
Håhå jaja, får väl ta och införskaffa druvsocker då. Päronen kommer tro man har fått träning på hjärnan när man köper in så mycket "udda preparat" som de kallar det ;)

Druvsocker var nog det enda tillskott som mina föräldrar riktigt accepterade när jag bodde hemma.

Farsan käkade det när han lirade boll! resten tyckte dom var "doping" :nono:

[aliquis]

Originally posted by King Grub

Ett insulinindex på runt 100 jämfört med 140 och alldeles för mycket fruktos i godiset.

Får jag låna tråden och fråga om jag också bör ha jättesnabba kolhydrater fast mitt protein är långsamt? Kolhydraterna skall väl lagras som glukogen och då borde ju snabba fortfarande gälla, men har insulinspiken i sig något syfte mer än att lagra kolhydrater? I vanliga fall ökar den säkert på proteinupptaget också men nu är ju inte mitt proteintillskott i omlopp ännu.
Funderar mest på om jag skall köra på russin eller druvsocker, russin känns ju nyttigare men å andra sidan behöver jag ju inte ha ännu sämre resultat ;D, och russin är väl ännu mindre "optimalt" än godis.
Kreatinupptaget lär ju iaf tjäna på druvsockret.

[Slartibartfast]

Var fan får man tag i en rejäl säck druvsocker? Eller bryggsocker? Var är det billigast? Vad kostar det?

Hur gör Grub? (Borde vara en titel på en frisklevnadsbok för barn)

[King Grub]

Originally posted by aliquis

Får jag låna tråden och fråga om jag också bör ha jättesnabba kolhydrater fast mitt protein är långsamt? Kolhydraterna skall väl lagras som glukogen och då borde ju snabba fortfarande gälla, men har insulinspiken i sig något syfte mer än att lagra kolhydrater? I vanliga fall ökar den säkert på proteinupptaget också men nu är ju inte mitt proteintillskott i omlopp ännu.
Funderar mest på om jag skall köra på russin eller druvsocker, russin känns ju nyttigare men å andra sidan behöver jag ju inte ha ännu sämre resultat ;D, och russin är väl ännu mindre "optimalt" än godis.
Kreatinupptaget lär ju iaf tjäna på druvsockret.

Du pratar om proteinet efter passet nu? Ja, du bör ha snabba kolhydrater till dessa. Utöver glykogeninlagringseffekterna vill man ha ett högt insulinpåslag och både snabba kolhydrater och snabbt upptagligt protein efter träningen. Varför?

Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2003 Mar;35(3):449-55. Independent and combined effects of amino acids and glucose after resistance exercise. Miller SL, Tipton KD, Chinkes DL, Wolf SE, Wolfe RR.

"Previous studies have provided some evidence that carbohydrate ingestion alone improves protein metabolism. Rennie et al. showed improved leucine balance during carbohydrate supplemented endurance exercise (13), whereas Roy et al. reported diminished myofibrillar proteolysis when carbohydrate was ingested following resistance exercise (14). Our results are consistent with this latter observation, as both urea production and Phe Ra were significantly lower in the CHO group relative to the predrink value at 30 min, and net balance was greater than zero throughout the 3 h after ingestion (Fig. 6). Implicit in this interpretation of our results is the assumption that in the absence of any intervention the net balance of Phe would have remained constant throughout the time during which the response to the drink was measured. The basis for this assumption is the result from our previous study in which a group of subjects received no intervention until 4 h after exercise (12). In that study there were no changes in net balance over the first 3 h after exercise (12).

Although the net effect of CHO alone on net muscle protein synthesis indicated moderate anabolism (i.e., the rate of synthesis exceeding the rate of breakdown), there was no effect of CHO on Rd, indicating no change in the rate of muscle protein synthesis. This is consistent with our previous observation that local hyperinsulinemia failed to stimulate muscle protein synthesis after exercise (5). When studies assessing the response of muscle protein synthesis to insulin are taken together, it is clear that insulin only stimulates muscle protein synthesis in the setting of adequate amino acid availability (20). Thus, it is possible that after exercise insulin increases the potential for accelerated muscle protein synthesis, but this can only be reflected in an increased production of protein if amino acid availability is increased contemporaneously. Thus, when an increase in insulin was coupled with an increase in amino acid concentration (MIX), there was an interactive effect in which the normal response of muscle protein synthesis to amino acids was amplified by the elevation of insulin, even though an isolated increase in insulin was ineffective."

Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Jun;280(6):E982-93. Postexercise nutrient intake timing in humans is critical to recovery of leg glucose and protein homeostasis. Levenhagen DK, Gresham JD, Carlson MG, Maron DJ, Borel MJ, Flakoll PJ.

"Insulin also has been shown to be central in the regulation of protein dynamics (12). Numerous reports exist demonstrating that stimulation of amino acid transport, promotion of whole body and muscle protein synthesis, and inhibition of proteolysis occur when amino acid availability and insulin concentrations are increased (12). Very little is known, however, regarding how exercise modulates insulin’s effects on protein metabolism. In the present study, whole body and leg protein synthesis were increased during the same postexercise period that insulin responsiveness to glucose metabolism appeared to be increased. Furthermore, although the changes were not as large as those noted for glucose utilization, protein synthesis also was greatest immediately after exercise and tended to decrease over the 3-h period (Fig. 7). Also similar to carbohydrate metabolism, there was no change in whole body or leg protein synthesis when the same supplement was provided 3 h after exercise. These data suggest that exercise’s modulation of insulin action also may play a central role in the regulation of protein synthesis. This conclusion is supported by a previous report with canines in which net muscle protein balance became positive within 15 min after initiation of a postexercise glucose-amino acid infusion and continued as such for the entire 2-h infusion (32). In addition, when the nutrient supplementation was discontinued in the canines, net muscle protein balance became negative again.

Insulin also is important in the regulation of amino acid transport (12). Insulin-stimulated amino acid transport was elevated by muscular contraction even in the absence of an increase in insulin binding (48). Although transport was not directly measured in the present study, fractional extraction of phenylalanine by the leg was twofold greater for EARLY vs. LATE supplementation, suggesting that leg tissues were more effective at removing the amino acids presented to them immediately vs. 3 h after exercise. Taken together with the information on protein synthesis, these data support enhanced insulin sensitivity as a central component of the mechanism involved in how the timing of nutrient supplementation after exercise alters utilization of a nutrient load."

J Nutr. 2000 Oct;130(10):2508-13. Ingestion of protein hydrolysate and amino acid-carbohydrate mixtures increases postexercise plasma insulin responses in men. van Loon LJ, Kruijshoop M, Verhagen H, Saris WH, Wagenmakers AJ.

"Consistent with recent findings in the postabsorptive resting state (van Loon et al. 2000a), the magnitude of the in vivo insulin response correlated with the increase in plasma leucine, phenylalanine and tyrosine concentrations. Regression analysis showed a strong positive correlation between plasma leucine, phenylalanine and tyrosine concentrations and the insulin response. This suggested relationship is in accordance with the effects of leucine and phenylalanine in vitro in studies with incubated b cells of the pancreas (Blachier et al. 1989a and 1989b, Hutton et al. 1980, Malaisse et al. 1991, Malaisse Lagae et al. 1971, Sener et al. 1989 and 1981, Sener and Malaisse, 1980 and 1981, Varnier et al. 1995) and with the in vivo studies by Floyd and coworkers (Fajans et al. 1962, Floyd et al. 1963, 1966, 1968, 1970a and 1970b) in which several (combinations of) amino acids with and without glucose were infused. The positive correlation observed with plasma tyrosine concentrations may be explained by the fact that tyrosine, the hydroxylation product of phenylalanine in the liver, is formed when large amounts of phenylalanine are ingested (Pogson et al. 1985). Furthermore, we observed a less substantial but significant negative correlation between the insulin response and plasma threonine, asparagine, glycine, alanine, valine, methionine, isoleucine and histidine concentrations. These negative correlations could be explained by an increased amino acid uptake after an increase in insulin level. Interestingly, the amino acids that revealed significant negative correlations included all of the essential amino acids (of course, with the exclusion of the supplemented amino acids leucine, phenylalanine and its product tyrosine). Plasma amino acid concentrations were generally lower after the ingestion of drinks 4 and 5 compared with the control trial, although in the latter, considerable amounts of protein and amino acids were ingested, which would normally increase the plasma amino acid response as shown in trials 2 and 3. This seems to suggest that tissue amino acid uptake and possibly also postexercise net muscle protein balance were increased after the ingestion of this insulinotropic mixture. This would be in line with several studies demonstrating that an increase in plasma insulin concentration, during conditions of hyperaminoacidemia, further increases net muscle protein balance in vivo in humans (Fryburg et al. 1995, Gelfand and Barrett, 1987, Hillier et al. 1998). Such a stimulating effect on net protein balance may in part also be a consequence of a stimulating effect of leucine on skeletal muscle protein synthesis, independent of an increase in insulin levels (Anthony et al. 1999 and 2000). However, the potential of insulinotropic protein hydrolysate and amino acid mixtures to stimulate postexercise net muscle protein anabolism, and the mechanisms involved, remains to be investigated."

Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2000 Aug;32(8):1412-8. Macronutrient intake and whole body protein metabolism following resistance exercise. Roy BD, Fowles JR, Hill R, Tarnopolsky MA.

"Consumption of both the CHO/PRO/FAT and CHO supplements led to significant increase in NOLD as compared with the PL condition following resistance exercise. NOLD was ;41% and ;33% greater for the CHO/PRO/FAT and CHO conditions as compared with the PL condition respectively. NOLD is considered to provide a directional representation of whole body PRO synthesis (WBPS) (19,20,27). It is unclear whether the exercise protocol per se resulted in an increase in WBPS, as this has been previously observed following an isolated bout of endurance exercise (9). However, in the fed state, no increase in WBPS was observed for up to 2 h following a resistance exercise protocol that was similar to the current study (27). Therefore, it is unlikely that the exercise protocol alone resulted in an increase in WBPS, however, postexercise consumption of either the CHO/PRO/FAT or CHO resulted in significant increases in WBPS as compared with a PL. These findings are consistent with reports in the literature that hyperaminoacidemia, and hyperinsulinemia in combination with hyperaminoacidemia significantly increased WBPS (6,28). In addition, the plasma insulin response associated with both the CHO/PRO/FAT and CHO conditions may have contributed to an increase in WBPS. Hyperinsulinemia has been observed to increase amino acid uptake and stimulate muscle protein synthesis. Data from the current study suggests that the increase in insulin may be more important with respect to the increase in NOLD, rather than the increase in circulating amino acids. The similar increase in NOLD during the two conditions supports this possibility. We cannot quantitate the contribution of splanchnic protein synthesis or MPS to WBPS using the current methods. However, in a similar previous study we demonstrated a trend toward greater MPS (36% nonsignificant increase) and a lower MPD (P , 0.05) for postexercise CHO versus PL supplement. Future studies should explain the role of combined supplements upon postexercise MPD and MPS using more direct measurements (i.e., catheterization across muscle and splanchnic beds)"

Eftersom du inte använder ett snabbt upptagligt protein är det än viktigare att du har aminosyror i omlopp redan innan passet.

[Slartibartfast]

Maltodextrin är väl dyrare per gram än godis?

[Slartibartfast]

Ursäkta att jag spammar, men sökte lite och fick fram att en dl maltodextrin väger ca 50 g, vilket betyder att jag borde hälla i mig två dl maltodextrin tillsammans med prottedrinken efter ett pass.

Nu undrar jag om man inte börjar hulka av två dl socker!? Eller har det någon smak?

[King Grub]

Originally posted by Slartibartfast
Nu undrar jag om man inte börjar hulka av två dl socker!? Eller har det någon smak?

Maltodextrin är neutralt, med endast en lätt sötma, till smaken.

[Slartibartfast]

Originally posted by King Grub


Maltodextrin är neutralt, med endast en lätt sötma, till smaken.

Ok, tack! Det är alltså druvsocker som är slibbigt.

[King Grub]

Svar ja. Maltodextrin fungerar även för de flesta som får magproblem av stora doser dextropur på en gång.

[Flytkorken]

köp dextropur... kostar 16kr för 400g, finns i sockerhyllan. billigt, bra, gott :)