Hur mycket kolhydrater behövs det?

[TBZLA]

hur mycket kolhydrater behöver egentligen kroppen DIREKT efter träning och under resten av dagen? jag tränar på morgonen om det har betydelse. väger 70 kg

[Jimbo]

jag brukar äta ca 100+ gram kolisar efter ett pass och väger 97kg
tror det var ca 1g per kg eller nått?

[shirunai]

och jag äter runt hälften på deffen.

[King Grub]

hur mycket kolhydrater behöver egentligen kroppen DIREKT efter träning

Du kan utgå från 1 gram per kilo kroppsvikt och reglera därifrån beroende på passet längd, intensitet och vad du tränat. Större muskelgrupper kräver mer än vad mindre muskelgrupper gör. Att dra ner på kolhydraterna direkt efter passet är helt onödigt.

och under resten av dagen?

Där finns det ingen exakt siffra. Det beror på ditt energibehov. Allt ifrån 25 till 50 procent, eller mer, av ditt energiintag, beroende på hur aktiv du är. Ju mer aktiv du är, desto större behov av lättillgänglig energi = kolhydrater.

[aliquis]

Fungerar det inte att bara slänga i sig så det känns bra? Blir det för lite får man väl äta snabbt igen, blir det lite mycket håller man sig väl bara mätt lite längre och kan vänta längre innan man käkar?

edit

Förövrigt lär det ju spela rätt stor roll om det är typ biceps eller lår/rygg man tränar..

[herr_Arne]

Originally posted by aliquis

Förövrigt lär det ju spela rätt stor roll om det är typ biceps eller lår/rygg man tränar..

Inte ett ifrågasättande, men en seriös undran infinner sig...

Gör det det? Spelar stor roll, alltså?
Naturligtvis finns det mer förbrukat muskelglykogen efter hård träning av stora muskelgrupper än av små, men...

1. Är det bara de muskelgrupper man tränat som laddas med glykogen, eller är det alla muskler (har svårt att tänka mig att insulinet är selektivt, men det kan ju vara något annat..)?

2. Finns det ett "tröskelvärde", dvs om man tränar för små muskelgrupper (exempelvis enbart greppträning med gripper) får man även då goda förhållanden för glykogenlagring efter passet?

Jag inser att detta kanske mest är av teoretiskt intresse, men eftersom jag är kroniskt nyfiken så frågar jag iallafall...)

:rolleyes:

[King Grub]

Muscle glycogen resynthesis during recovery from cycle exercise: no effect of additional protein ingestion.
J Appl Physiol. 2000 May;88(5):1631-6.

In the present study, we have investigated the effect of carbohydrate and protein hydrolysate ingestion on muscle glycogen resynthesis during 4 h of recovery from intense cycle exercise. Five volunteers were studied during recovery while they ingested, immediately after exercise, a 600-ml bolus and then every 15 min a 150-ml bolus containing 1) 1.67 g. kg body wt(-1). l(-1) of sucrose and 0.5 g. kg body wt(-1). l(-1) of a whey protein hydrolysate (CHO/protein), 2) 1.67 g. kg body wt(-1). l(-1) of sucrose (CHO), and 3) water. CHO/protein and CHO ingestion caused an increased arterial glucose concentration compared with water ingestion during 4 h of recovery. With CHO ingestion, glucose concentration was 1-1.5 mmol/l higher during the first hour of recovery compared with CHO/protein ingestion. Leg glucose uptake was initially 0.7 mmol/min with water ingestion and decreased gradually with no measurable glucose uptake observed at 3 h of recovery. Leg glucose uptake was rather constant at 0.9 mmol/min with CHO/protein and CHO ingestion, and insulin levels were stable at 70, 45, and 5 mU/l for CHO/protein, CHO, and water ingestion, respectively. Glycogen resynthesis rates were 52 +/- 7, 48 +/- 5, and 18 +/- 6 for the first 1.5 h of recovery and decreased to 30 +/- 6, 36 +/- 3, and 8 +/- 6 mmol. kg dry muscle(-1). h(-1) between 1.5 and 4 h for CHO/protein, CHO, and water ingestion, respectively. No differences could be observed between CHO/protein and CHO ingestion ingestion. It is concluded that coingestion of carbohydrate and protein, compared with ingestion of carbohydrate alone, did not increase leg glucose uptake or glycogen resynthesis rate further when carbohydrate was ingested in sufficient amounts every 15 min to induce an optimal rate of glycogen resynthesis

[King Grub]

Glycogen resynthesis in skeletal muscle following resistive exercise.

Pascoe DD, Costill DL, Fink WJ, Robergs RA, Zachwieja JJ.

Human Performance Laboratory, Ball State University, Muncie, IN 47306.

The purpose of this investigation was to determine the influence of post-exercise carbohydrate (CHO) intake on the rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis after high intensity weight resistance exercise in subjects not currently weight training. In a cross-over design, eight male subjects performed sets (mean = 8.8) of six single leg knee extensions at 70% of one repetition max until 50% of full knee extension was no longer possible. Total force application was equated between trials using a strain gauge interfaced to a computer. The subjects exercised in the fasted state. Post-exercise feedings were administered at 0 and 1 h consisting of either a 23% CHO solution (1.5 g.kg-1) or an equal volume of water (H2O). Total force production, preexercise muscle glycogen content, and degree of depletion (-40.6 and -44.3 mmol.kg-1 wet weight) were not significantly different between H2O and CHO trials. As anticipated during the initial 2-h recovery, the CHO trial had a significantly greater rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis as compared with the H2O trial. The muscle glycogen content was restored to 91% and 75% of preexercise levels when water and CHO were provided after 6 h, respectively.

[King Grub]

Effect of carbohydrate ingestion on glycogen resynthesis in human liver and skeletal muscle, measured by (13)C MRS.

Casey A, Mann R, Banister K, Fox J, Morris PG, Macdonald IA, Greenhaff PL.

School of Biomedical Sciences, University of Nottingham Medical School, Nottingham NG7 2UH, United Kingdom.

This study investigated the effect of carbohydrate (CHO) ingestion on postexercise glycogen resynthesis, measured simultaneously in liver and muscle (n = 6) by (13)C magnetic resonance spectroscopy, and subsequent exercise capacity (n = 10). Subjects cycled at 70% maximal oxygen uptake for 83 +/- 8 min on six separate occasions. At the end of exercise, subjects ingested 1 g/kg body mass (BM) glucose, sucrose, or placebo (control). Resynthesis of glycogen over a 4-h period after treatment ingestion was measured on the first three occasions, and subsequent exercise capacity was measured on occasions four through six. No glycogen was resynthesized during the control trial. Liver glycogen resynthesis was evident after glucose (13 +/- 8 g) and sucrose (25 +/- 5 g) ingestion, both of which were different from control (P < 0.01). No significant differences in muscle glycogen resynthesis were found among trials. A relationship between the CHO load (g) and change in liver glycogen content (g) was evident after 30, 90, 150, and 210 min of recovery (r = 0.59-0. 79, P < 0.05). Furthermore, a modest relationship existed between change in liver glycogen content (g) and subsequent exercise capacity (r = 0.53, P < 0.05). However, no significant difference in mean exercise time was found (control: 35 +/- 5, glucose: 40 +/- 5, and sucrose: 46 +/- 6 min). Therefore, 1 g/kg BM glucose or sucrose is sufficient to initiate postexercise liver glycogen resynthesis, which contributes to subsequent exercise capacity, but not muscle glycogen resynthesis.

[herr_Arne]

Intressanta fakta King Grub (framförallt det faktum att trots högre insulinnivåer så är glykogenåterställningen i musklerna densamma oavsett om man intar enbart kolhydrater eller om man intar kolhydrater kombinerat med protein).

För dem som inte orkar läsa ovanstående texter kan jag också meddela att de svarar på trådens ursprungliga fråga, inte mina två. Vad jag kan se... :cool:

[King Grub]

Lugn! :cool:

Biochemical Events Involved In Glycogen Deposition- Role Of Glycogen Synthase.

Glycogen Resynthesis After Exercise

Jacob E. Friedman, Pew Center for Molecular Nutrition, and Department of Nutrition, Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine, Cleveland, OH 44106




Rates of glycogen deposition after exercise appear to be directly proportional to the extent to which glycogen depletion has occurred during exercise. Moreover, the pattern of muscle glycogen repletion after exercise is faster and higher in muscles composed of primarily oxidative fiber types. This has been suggested to be a reflection of the higher activities of the enzymes hexokinase and glycogen synthase in fast twitch red and slow twitch red than in fast-twitch white fibers.

Exercise and insulin by themselves induce an increase in glycogen synthase enzyme activity by increasing the percent of the enzyme in the I (independent) form, meaning the enzyme can be activated independently from glucose-6-phosphate, the primary allosteric modifier of glycogen synthase. When glycogen concentration decreases in the muscle, the glycogen synthase enzyme is released from glycogen and is able to be dephosphorylated by phosphoprotein phosphatase, which catalyzes the conversion of synthase D (dependent form) to the I, more spontaneously active form.

Although small changes in the D to I activity ratio can lead to large changes in the rate of glycogen synthesis, glycogen synthase I appears to increase very little in response to glycogen depletion. Some studies have suggested that glycogen resynthesis may also be the result of small but significant activation of glycogen synthase D form, such that lower levels of glucose-6-phosphate are needed to stimulate glycogen synthase enzyme activity. The accumulation of glucose-6-phosphate in skeletal muscle is limited in part by the rate of glucose entry into the muscle cell. Although accelerated glycogen resynthesis rate during the initial recovery from exercise involves activation of glycogen synthase enzyme activity, exercise appears to stimulate muscle glycogen synthesis up to eight fold following intensive exercise, yet glycogen synthase activity increases by only approximately 25%. These observations indicate that glycogen formation does not depend solely on large increases in glycogen synthase activity, and suggest that factors which increase glucose uptake by the muscle cell may be more critical for glycogen resynthesis after exercise.


Role Of Glucose Transport In Regulating Glycogen Synthesis.


Under most metabolic conditions, the rate-limiting step in muscle glucose metabolism appears to be glucose transport. Thus, factors that increase glucose transport in skeletal muscle likely have a significant effect on muscle glycogen synthesis. Exercise or contractile activity is a potent stimulus for increasing the permeability of muscle to glucose even in the absence of insulin. Reports indicate that glucose uptake can increase as much as 10 fold in the absence of insulin following one hour of moderate-intensity exercise. It is worth noting that increased glucose transport following muscle contractions occur only in muscles which are significantly depleted of their glycogen stores and that glucose transport returns to normal levels in muscles which have been repleted with glycogen. Increased glucose transport into muscle may persist for 16 to 20 hours following exercise in rats if carbohydrate intake is restricted. However, the rate of glucose transport is not increased when muscle glycogen is lowered by an overnight fast. This suggests that contractile activity provides an important stimulus linking glucose transport to increased muscle glycogen synthesis after exercise. Although the exact nature of the biological signal required for exercise-induced increases in glucose transport by muscle remains undefined, the effector system which facilitates glucose entry into muscle has recently been identified.

[herr_Arne]

Tackar, där satt den... :thumbup:

Intressant att det också tycks finnas indikationer på att det faktiskt inte är så bråttom att fylla på glykogenet efter träningen... Vilket jag naturligtvis kommer att göra iallafall...

[aliquis]

orkar inte läsa det king grub skrev just nu, men kom att tänka på det tidigare idag att jag väl hade svaret på en utav frågorna...

Hela vitsen med att man skall stoppa i sig kolhydrater efter träning, och helst då snabba sådana, är ju att musklerna (som har tränats) har slut på glukogen och därför suger upp allt dom kommer åt OAVSETT insulinet. Det är ju därför det inte gör något om det är snabba kolhydrater just efter träning. Följdaktligen blir det ju så att dessa muskler suger i sig sockret ifrån blodet och insulinnivån behöver inte höjas och därför lagras ju inte glukogenet i andra muskler.

Så tja, jag tror fortfarande att det gör skillnad på om hela quadriceps har slut på glukogen eller om det bara är biceps som har det, förutsatt att man inte discotränar för mycket för då kanske det går åt ungefär lika mycket ;)

[MunsöHustla]

Originally posted by shirunai
och jag äter runt hälften på deffen.

Varför gör du det? Borde det inte vara viktigast att ha kvar de viktiga kollisarna efter träning och istället dra ner på resten av dagsintaget?