Kolozzeum Forum - Sveriges största träningsforum
Gammal 2009-10-05, 13:13   #46
Ministry
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Jag gillar själv en annan approach. Den går ut på att nyttja principer som man läser sig själv och / eller genom att prata mycket med andra "tänkare" och försöka "genomskåda" träningsprocessen som sådan. Dessa applicerar man sedan genom att antingen börja från scratch eller genom att modda existerande program på olika vis som man sedan tränar igenom och lär sig ännu mer av.
Klokt!
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Gammal 2009-10-05, 21:59   #47
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I en intervju så raljerade han rätt så jävla mycket över snorungar som ville köra hans program... men de ville ändra saker. Hans mening, som givetvis uttrycktes i termer av svavelos n vitriol, gick ut på att: Gör precis som du vill, men min metod är min metod; ändrar du den så är den inte min.
Vilken intervju hänvisar du till?

Här är en intervju från t-muscle:


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Don't customize: This probably applies to any program published on this site, but it especially matters for 5/3/1. You must do the program the way it's written.

"People ask the craziest shit," Wendler says, his voice getting louder again. " 'Can I combine 5/3/1 with Westside for Skinny Bastards?' Why not just do one or the other and make progress?
Fast med det menar han 531 delen. Vilka/och hur man lägger upp assistansarbetet är valbart, senare i samma intervju:

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Take it easy with the assistance work: "Some people look for the magic combination of assistance exercises, and completely under-rate the key lift," Wendler notes. "I call that majoring in the minors. Assistance work is just that — assistance. Do one or two exercises for five sets of 10, or maybe do a few more exercises for fewer sets. It's assistance. It doesn't fucking matter.
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Gammal 2009-10-05, 22:01   #48
Salus
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oj, glömde länka till intervjun:
http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_a..._pure_strength
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Gammal 2009-10-05, 22:07   #49
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Vilken intervju hänvisar du till?

Här är en intervju från t-muscle:




Fast med det menar han 531 delen. Vilka/och hur man lägger upp assistansarbetet är valbart, senare i samma intervju:
Ja det var precis det jag tänker på.
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Gammal 2009-10-17, 23:51   #50
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Borde inte repsintervallet under assistansövningarna vara lägre explosiva reps? Kan inte förstå varför han rekommenderar 10 reps eller mer om man är ute efter styrkan. Iofs så fokuserar han ju inte på maxstyrka men ändå.
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Gammal 2009-10-18, 00:40   #51
Matsa
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Han verkar anse att huvudövningarna räcker för styrka, assistansövningarna är till för hypertrofi. Eller för att citera en 5-3-1 artikel:

"Along with the bench press, squat, shoulder press, and deadlift, 5/3/1 includes assistance exercises to build muscle, prevent injury, and create a balanced physique."
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lol, det finns mkt gemensamt mellan Knutbysekten och knäböjare.
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Det roliga är att du har nästintill samma profilbild som Matsa. En smällfet marklyftare. Det är så man dör alltså
"Små delikata rörelser..."
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Gammal 2009-11-06, 23:08   #52
Damien Thorne
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Hittade en intressant artikel som beskriver hur programmet går tillväga.
Nåt som kanske några missar är de 5 lätta setten med 10reppare på 50-60% efter huvudsetten. Och att man ska försöka göra försöka göra fler reps än det står på sista huvudsettet varje vecka.

Men först några tankar från mig...

Jag skapade ett excelprogram för att se hur vikterna skulle se ut på en längre period. Gör man enligt rekommendationerna så blir det ett mycket långdraget program. Man ska inte utgå från sitt 1RM, utan man ska utgå från 90% av sitt 1RM, och vecka 3 gör man en 1a på 95% av det. Eftersom man bara kör bänk 1gång i veckan med en minicykel på 4 veckor så kör man bara 1orna var fjärde vecka. Sen ska man höja med 2.5kg efter varje minicykel, dvs efter 4 veckor.

Om man utgår från att man maxar 150kg så är 90% av det 135kg. Så första 1an blir 127.5. Vecka 39 kommer jag att tangera en 1a på 150 och det blir först vecka 43 som det blir ett nytt PB-försök på endast 2.5kg mer. Vecka 55 har jag enligt schemat gjort en ökning på 10kg, dvs drygt 1år.

Utgår man istället från sitt verkliga 1RM så tangerar man det vecka 15 och PB-försöket hamnar på vecka 19 och 10kg´s ökninmg hamnar på vecka 31.

Jag tycker tanken bakom schemat är mycket intressant, men att det är alldeles för långdaget. Jag testade att göra om det till ett kortare bänkpress-schema på 7 veckor där man kör bänk 2ggr/vecka, och man försöker öka 2.5kg per 7-veckorsperiod. Det är en liten ökning om man jämför med andra bänkpressprogram där man ska öka 10kg på 2 månader. Men jag gillar tanken att man ska skynda långsamt, lyckas man öka 2.5kg varannan månad så kan man teoretiskt öka 15kg per år.

Hursomhelst... Är kommer artikeln (som är delar av e-boken)...



Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 is the latest routine to come from the former Westside Barbell member. It originated in his e-book titled "Training 3 Days a Week", where the 5/3/1 program was included as one of about a dozen routines that one could train on only three days out of the week. However, the response to the program from lifters was so enthusiastic that he put out an entire book on the program itself. It is purported to be the most simple, yet effective way to gain strength as a raw lifter, and it's proponents will have you believe nothing less than that.

On the surface, the program seems simple enough: You do three (Or four) workouts a week, with the entirety of the focus being on the big four movements; the military press, squat, deadlift, and bench press. Gain big in those movements, and you'll be strong for life, or so the theory goes.

SO HOW DOES THIS poo poo WORK?


Pretty good, if you ask this guy

The program is broken up into cycles of 4 weeks, with each week called a "wave" for the purposes of the program. Each wave has you doing all the main exercises at least once each wave (Or dropping one exercise if doing 3 days a week). Each wave utilizes a different set and repetition scheme than the last, and basically truncates a complete periodization cycle into 4 weeks.

It looks something like this

Wave 1: 75%x5, 80%x5, 85%x5 or more
Wave 2: 80%x3, 85%x3, 90%x3 or more
Wave 3: 75%x5, 85%x3, 95%x1 or more
Wave 4: 60%x5, 65%x5, 70%x5

Or, you can use this method, which reduces the volume for the first two working sets and leaves you fresher for the final set. Wendler reccomends this for most everyone, and I would agree that its probably more effective. You will probably see better gains with this.

Wave 1: 65%x5, 75%x5, 85%x5 or more
Wave 2: 70%x3, 80%x3, 90%x3 or more
Wave 3: 75%x5, 85%x3, 95%x1 or more
Wave 4: 40%x5, 50%x5, 60%x5

Notice how the cycle starts out with sets of 5 for the first wave, shifts to sets of 3 for the second wave, and finally has you getting up to a single at 95% of your one-rep max. If you look closely, you'll see where the name of the program came from. Also of note, wave 4 is a deload week, and utilizes much lower training percentages than the previous weeks.

One unique facet of the program is that the final set of the day shouldn't necessarily be for just the prescribed reps. Wendler describes the final set of the day as being the set that "puts hair on your balls", and as such, should be done for as many reps as possibly without going to failure. Thats right, you want to go hard, but not too hard. That means even your sets on the 3rd wave, when you're doing reps at 95%, will be done for as many reps as possible. However, one of the things Wendler constantly preaches in his books is leaving the ego at the gym door. I know we all think that we do this when we hit the power rack, but its really easy to get carried away. This is another part of the program that is kind of unique, your training max is based on 90% of your 1RM. Thats right, you dont go off your true 1RM, but rather 90% of that. Wendler claims that his best gains came from training with this method.


5/3/1, it no longer equals 1.66666666666666666666667

After hitting the prescribed reps and doing as much as you can for the final set, its time to hit the accessory work. You have several options:

OPTION 1: I'm Not Doing Jack poo poo

This is just hitting the main sets and getting out of there. You choose this either because, A) You're too tired (Which you shouldnt be since you're training off of 90% of your true 1RM), of B) You dont have enough time. Either way, you shouldnt need to be doing this.

OPTION 2: Boring, but big

Wendler claims that, while this isnt the most interesting accessory option in the world, it will probably net you the most gains. What it basically amounts to is doing the main movement again, only at 50-60% of your working max, for 5 sets of 10. Afterwards, you will do an isolation movement for 5 sets of 10 to hit those muscles that the main movement doesnt affect.

Here's some examples:

Squat - 3 sets of 5 (Or whatever wave you're on)
Squat - 5 sets of 10 at 50%
Leg curl - 5 sets of 10

Military Press - 3 sets of 5 (Or whatever wave you're on)
Military Press - 5 sets of 10 at 50%
Chin-ups - 5 sets of 10 at bodyweight

Deadlift - 3 sets of 5 (Or whatever wave you're on)
Deadlift - 5 sets of 10 at 55%
Hanging Leg Raise - 5 sets of 15

Bench - 3 sets of 5 (Or whatever wave you're on)
Bench - 5 sets of 10 at 60%
Dumbbell Row - 5 sets of 10

And there you have it. That poo poo looks boring as hell.

OPTION 3: The Triumvirate

This option is somewhat similar to Boring But Big, but drops the 5 sets of 10 in favor of adding another accessory movement of your choosing. As long as they vaguely relate to the main movement, you can do pretty much whatever accessory you want.

OPTION 4: The Periodization Bible

This option is based on an article written by Dave Tate called "The Periodization Bible, Part 1". If you havent read it yet, go do so now.

Basically, it takes the Westside approach to lifting, throws out everything about max effort and conjugate method and all that, and just leaves the method for doing accessory work. It says that you should determine your accessory work based on the most frequently-taxed muscles that are used during that exercise. It looks something like this:

Military Press (5/3/1)
• Shoulders or Chest – 5 sets of 10-20 reps (DB bench, DB Incline, DB Military, Incline press, Dips, Pushups)
• Lats or Upper Back – 5 sets of 10-20 reps (DB rows, Bent Over Rows, Chins, T-bar Rows, Lat Pulldowns, Face Pulls, Shrugs)
• Triceps – 5 sets of 10-20 reps (Triceps Pushdowns or Triceps Extensions)

Deadlift (5/3/1)
• Hamstrings – 5 sets of 10-20 reps (Leg Curls, Glute-Ham Raise)
• Quads – 5 sets of 10-20 reps (Leg Press, Lunges, Hack Squats)
• Abs – 5 sets of 10-20 reps (Sit-ups, Hanging Leg Raises, Ab Wheel, DB Side Bend)

Bench Press (5/3/1)
• Shoulders or Chest – 5 sets of 10-20 reps (DB bench, DB Incline, DB Military, Incline press, Dips, Pushups)
• Lats or Upper Back – 5 sets of 10-20 reps (DB rows, Bent Over Rows, Chins, T-bar Rows, Lat Pulldowns, Face Pulls, Shrugs)
• Triceps – 5 sets of 10-20 reps (Triceps Pushdowns or Triceps Extensions)

Squat (5/3/1)
• Low Back – 5 sets of 10-20 reps (Reverse Hyper, Back Raise, Good Morning)
• Quads – 5 sets of 10-20 reps (Leg Press, Lunges, Hack Squats)
• Abs – 5 sets of 10-20 reps (Sit-ups, Hanging Leg Raises, Ab Wheel, DB Side Bend)

You can change exercises however you see fit, but note that this won’t make or break your program. One thing that you need to remember is that the accessory work it meant to supplement and strengthen the main movement, not detract from it. If you're continually increasing your weight on shoulder presses, but your military press or bench press arent going up, it might be prudent to consider tapering back on the accessory work, or consider changing your accessory routine entirely.

OPTION 5: Bodyweight

This option is as simple as it sounds. Use bodyweight exercises to supplement the main lift. Wendler reccomends at least 75 reps per exercise, and at least 2 BW exercises per lifting day. Note that you can use most of the BW exercises to supplement military press to supplement the bench. Same with deadlifts and squats. If you want, you can add some weight to these in order to continue loading without needing to increase reps. Bands or chains will also help, especially with things like pushups.

PROGRESS

Just as you keep your ego in check during your gym sessions, Wendler says to keep your ego in check during the many months that you follow the 5/3/1 with regards to progress. Make no bones about it, 5/3/1 isnt the fastest gainer out there, but what it will do is give you consistent gains month after month after month. With this in mind, expect to gain no more than 10 pounds a month on the squat and deadlift, and 5 pounds on your bench and press. That may be a bit of a bitter pill to swallow for some if you're used to increasing your working weights by 5lbs every week, but after a certain level, that just doesnt work any more. For those of us that have reached that level, 10lbs a month is plenty. I would love to add 120lbs a year to my squat and dead, same with 60lbs to my press.

Anyway, for progression purposes, after each cycle add 10lbs to the previous 90% figure that you had been working with (For SQ/DL) and 5lbs to your 90% bench and military press. Calculate your working sets and start lifting.


You too can become a fat man today!

A FINAL WORD

5/3/1 is not just for powerlifters, and its not just a grown-up version of 5x5. Its for anyone with a little bit of experience under their belts that want a consistent, methodical, simple and logical approach to lifting. Its an effective way to increase not only your one-rep max, but your rep maxes as well, which lends itself to all-around strength in addition to top-end strength. And really, who doesnt want that? Most of all, it makes training simple and fun again. Its a thrill just to see how many reps you can get on the last set of the day. It makes you feel like progression happens on a daily basis, not just every time you do a max attempt.

I would reccomend this program only if you've got at least 2 years of lifting, squat or deadlift at least 2x bodyweight, and if you know your own body. That last part is probably the most important. You dont want to be starting this program if your form isnt perfect, and if you dont know your ability for recovery, both physically and mentally. Also, you dont want to start on this program if you're not going to stick around with it for a while. This isnt like Smolov where you do it for 3 months, take your gains and never touch the program again. Its an all-around program that is meant to deliver consistent, methodical gains. Trust in the program, put your time in the gym, and you will get the most out of it.

For more information and to order the full ebook, head on over to Elitefts.com and feed 20$ into the cavernous slot that is Dave Tate's face.
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Gammal 2009-11-06, 23:31   #53
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Det kommer mera för de som är intresserade...


I'm only 30 seconds into my interview with Jim Wendler, and things are already off to a rocky start.

I'd asked the author of 5/3/1: The Simplest and Most Effective Training System to Increase Raw Strength, to talk to TMUSCLE readers about his program, and quickly learned that although Jim is passionate about 5/3/1, the last thing he wants to do is sell anyone on it.

"Just so we're clear," he says, "either people want to do 5/3/1, or they don't. I really want to help people, but if they won't take my advice there's nothing I can do. That's fine by me. I don't fight the battles. I just don't fucking care."

A long pause follows, and I wonder if this has become the shortest interview in TMUSCLE history.

Then he throws me a bone. "Look, arguing about strength training theory is stupid," he says. "And the reason I came up with 5/3/1 was that I wanted a program that eliminated stupid thoughts from my head and just let me go into the weight room and get shit done. I've been training for 20 years, and this is what I've learned."


A Powerlifter's Progress
If you don't know who Jim Wendler is, you're probably not very strong.

He's senior editor and sales manager for Elite Fitness Systems, and Elite founder Dave Tate's right-hand man. He cut his teeth in the strength game on the college gridiron, first as a player with the University of Arizona and later as a strength and conditioning coach with the University of Kentucky. Then came years under the bar at Westside Barbell, which overlapped with his affiliation with Tate at Elite.

To mere mortals, his powerlifting accomplishments in the 275-pound weight class seem inhuman: a 1,000-pound squat, 675-pound bench press, 700-pound deadlift, and a 2,375 total.

Wendler disagrees. "I wasn't strong at all," he says. "I could waddle up to the monolift and squat, but I couldn't do anything else. Really, all I could do was squat, bench, and deadlift."

Now happily retired from powerlifting at age 34, and 50 pounds lighter, he has different aspirations: "I want be able to do a bunch of different activities and still kick ass in the weight room. I want to be as mobile, flexible, strong, and in as good a condition as I possibly can. That's how I came up with 5/3/1."


Philosophy 531
If you're searching for the next great training breakthrough, one that will completely change the way you look at weight lifting, 5/3/1 probably isn't the program for you. On the contrary, Wendler describes the core philosophy behind 5/3/1 as "the basic tenets of strength training that have stood the test of time."

Basic multi-joint lifts: "The bench press, parallel squat, deadlift, and standing press have been the staples of any strong man's repertoire. Those who ignore these lifts are generally the people who suck at them. If you get good at those, you'll get good at other stuff, as they have such a huge carryover."

Starting light: While it may seem counterintuitive to take weight off the bar when the goal is to add weight to it, Wendler asserts that starting lighter allows you more room to progress forward. "This is a very hard pill to swallow for most lifters," he says. "They want to start heavy and they want to start now. This is nothing more than ego, and nothing will destroy a lifter faster, or for longer, than ego."

Progress slowly: This ties in with starting light, and keeps lifters who want to get big and strong yesterday from sabotaging their own progress. "People want a program that will add 40 pounds to their bench in eight weeks," Wendler explains. "When I ask how much their bench went up in the last year, they hang their heads in shame."

Break personal records: 5/3/1 is set up to allow you to break a variety of repetition records throughout the year. Notice that it's "rep records," and not "one-rep max." "Most people live and die by their one-rep max. To me, this is foolish and short sighted. If your squat goes from 225 x 6 to 225 x 9, you've gotten stronger."


5/3/1 by the Numbers
In 5/3/1, you're expected to train three or four days a week. Each workout is centered around one core lift — the aforementioned parallel squat, bench press, deadlift, and standing shoulder press.

Each training cycle lasts four weeks, with these set-rep goals for each major lift:

Week 1: 3 x 5
Week 2: 3 x 3
Week 3: 3 x 5, 3, 1
Week 4: deloading

Then you start the next cycle, using heavier weights on the core lifts. And that's where a seemingly simple system starts getting complicated.

You aren't just picking a weight to lift five times or three times or one time per set. You're using a specific percentage of your one-rep max. And not your full 1RM. The calculations are based on 90% of it.

So if your 1RM in the bench press is 315 pounds, you use 285 (90%) as the base number for your training-weight calculations. Here's how it works:

Week 1 Week 2 Week 3 Week 4
Set 1 65% x 5 70% x 3 75% x 5 40% x 5
Set 2 75% x 5 80% x 3 85% x 3 50% x 5
Set 3 85% x 5+ 90% x 3+ 95% x 1+ 60% x 5

When you see 5+, 3+, or 1+, that means you do the max reps you can manage with that weight, with the goal of setting a rep record in each workout.

Let's walk through the Week 1 workout for bench press. Using the example above, if your 1RM is 315, you calculate all your percentages from 90% of that max, or 285 pounds.

So you're using 185 (65% of 285) x 5, 215 x 5, and 240 or 245 x 5 or more. (In his 5/3/1 ebook, available for $20 here, Wendler provides detailed lists of weights and percentages so you don't have to carry a calculator with you to the gym.

After you finish the first cycle, you add five pounds to your 1RM calculations for the two upper-body lifts and 10 pounds to your 1RM for the squat and deadlift.

To Wendler, these specific instructions for 1RM percentages and monthly progression are what set 5/3/1 apart from less useful systems. "When I see a program that says three sets of eight reps? That's the stupidest fucking thing ever. If it doesn't have a specific percentage based on a specific max, it's useless," he says. "That's the hallmark of someone who doesn't understand basic programming.

"With 5/3/1, you accomplish a goal every workout. Some programs have no fucking progression from one day to the other."

Another unique feature is that final balls-out set in each workout. You don't have to go beyond the prescribed reps if you don't feel like it, but Wendler says there are real benefits to doing so.

"I've always thought of doing the prescribed reps as simply testing your strength," he says. "Anything over and above that builds strength, muscle, and character."

He does, however, want to dismiss any parallels you might see with HIT-type programs. Yes, that last set is the one that puts hair on your chest, but Wendler says the system doesn't work without the sets that precede it. "I tried cutting those out but I got smaller and weaker. There might be only one really hard set, but the other sets are still quality work."


Some Assistance, Please?
Along with the bench press, squat, shoulder press, and deadlift, 5/3/1 includes assistance exercises to build muscle, prevent injury, and create a balanced physique. Wendler's favorites are strength-training staples like chin-ups, dips, lunges, and back extensions. But he warns not to go apeshit with these supplemental exercises:

"They should complement the training, not detract from it. You must have a very strong reason for doing an exercise. If you don't, scrap it and move on."

His 5/3/1 ebook includes a number of different ways to choose and implement assistance work, with memorable categories like Boring But Big (Wendler's version of a hypertrophy program), The Triumvirate (three lifts per workout; an example is shown below), Dave Tate's Periodization Bible, and Wendler's favorite, I'm Not Doing Jack Shit, aptly named for those times when you only have time to hit the PR in your key lift and leave.

"People laugh and call me lazy, while they twit around in their three-hour workout making zero progress," he says. "Sometimes, instead of what you do in the weight room, it's what you don't do that will lead to success."


5/3/1 and its Discontents
Wendler has received a lot of positive feedback from trainees who used 5/3/1 to overcome plateaus in strength and size development. "And it's not just from advanced guys," he says. "I received a thank-you from a guy who went from 135 for one on the bench to 135 for 17."

But the program has also received criticism from lifters on two fronts: that lifters are told to start too light, and build too slow.

"Start too light" refers to Wendler's insistence that the prescribed loads are calculated off of 90% of the lifter's 1RM. If your 1RM in the bench is 315, why calculate loads off a 1RM of 285?

Wendler has a characteristically blunt response: "People who freak out about the 90% thing are usually weak in the first place. You don't need to operate at your max to increase your max. Why people get so bent out of shape about taking two steps back if it means they'll be taking 10 steps forward is beyond me."

Then there's the veracity problem. Few lifters are willing to acknowledge their true 1RM.

"I do a seminar basically every week," Wendler says, his voice rising. "Every time, without fail, when I ask someone what their one-rep max is, I get this: 'Wellll, about three years ago I hit 365 for a triple, but that was when I was training heavier ...' Most guys just don't have a fucking clue.

"By using the 90%, I account for this bullshit. By using weights they can actually handle, guys are building muscle, avoiding burnout, and most importantly, making progress every workout."

Wendler acknowledges that none of this is exactly revolutionary. "I learned this in my freshman year," he says. "I've always made my best gains when I left just a bit in the tank."

As you can imagine, he doesn't think much of the "build too slow" criticism, either. "People tell me that they don't want to take three months to build up their strength," he says. "Where are you going to be in a year? Fuck that, where are you going to be in five years, when you're still benching 205 with your ass halfway off the bench?

"The pursuit of strength is not a six-month or one-year pursuit. It's a 30-year pursuit for me. You gotta be smart about it. But everyone wants everything right now."


Countdown to 5/3/1
Ready to take 5/3/1 for a test drive? To ensure your success, Jim Wendler cautions to avoid these four common rookie mistakes.

Don't customize: This probably applies to any program published on this site, but it especially matters for 5/3/1. You must do the program the way it's written.

"People ask the craziest shit," Wendler says, his voice getting louder again. " 'Can I combine 5/3/1 with Westside for Skinny Bastards?' Why not just do one or the other and make progress?

"These same guys then bitch three months later on some message board that the program didn't work. That's like complaining that your girl got pregnant despite you using a Trojan condom, except you forget to mention you were wearing the condom on your freakin' fingers."

Take it easy with the assistance work: "Some people look for the magic combination of assistance exercises, and completely under-rate the key lift," Wendler notes. "I call that majoring in the minors. Assistance work is just that — assistance. Do one or two exercises for five sets of 10, or maybe do a few more exercises for fewer sets. It's assistance. It doesn't fucking matter.

"I sometimes just give people a rep number and let them make it up on their own. Say, 'push movement: 60 reps,' or 'pull: 100 reps.' It's all just working the muscle."

Start with the right weights: This was covered already, but Wendler says it bears repeating: "I don't know how many times people have blown away their PRs because they learn to train with some restraint and actually use weights that they can handle with good form."

Progress slowly: "I tell guys that the longer your stride, the quicker you'll tear a hamstring," says the former Division I football player. "But the problem is, people live for today's workout. No one seems to have the vision anymore to look beyond just what they are doing today.

"I plan my training for a year. I know exactly what I want to do, and what I want to accomplish 12 months in advance. And I know what five or 10 pounds a month adds up to over the course of a year.

"The game of lifting isn't an eight-week pursuit. It doesn't last as long as your latest program does. It's a lifetime pursuit."


Sample Workout: The Triumvirate
As mentioned earlier, The Triumvirate uses three exercises per workout, one of which is a core lift. Before each workout, do a warm-up that includes mobility, flexibility, something to raise your core temperature and heart rate (like rope jumping), and foam rolling.

(Wendler recommends adding two or three conditioning sessions per week, using hill sprints, Prowler pushes, or whatever else works for you.)

In all workouts, rest 3 to 5 minutes between sets of the core lift (the first one in the workout), and 1 to 2 minutes between sets of the assistance exercises.

Remember that you're calculating percentages based on 90% of your current 1RM in each lift, not from the actual 1RM.

Workout 1

Exercise Sets Reps % 1RM
1) Standing shoulder press
Week 1
Week 2
Week 3
Week 4 3
5
3
5/3/1
5
65,75,85
70,80,90
75,85,95
40,50,60
2) Dip 5 15
3) Chin-up 5 10

Workout 2

Exercise Sets Reps % 1RM
1) Deadlift
Week 1
Week 2
Week 3
Week 4 3
5
3
5/3/1
5
65,75,85
70,80,90
75,85,95
40,50,60
2) Good morning 5 12
3) Hanging leg raise 5 15

Workout 3

Exercise Sets Reps % 1RM
1) Bench press
Week 1
Week 2
Week 3
Week 4 3

5
3
5/3/1
5
65,75,85
70,80,90
75,85,95
40,50,60
2) Dumbbell chest press 5 15
3) Dumbbell row 5 10

Workout 4

Exercise Sets Reps % 1RM
1) Squat
Week 1
Week 2
Week 3
Week 4 3
5
3
5/3/1
5
65,75,85
70,80,90
75,85,95
40,50,60
2) Leg press 5 15
3) Leg curl 5 10


Wrapping It Up
To look at 5/3/1 on your computer screen, it appears simple enough (unless you're intimidated by the math involved). That's exactly what Wendler says he was after. Getting big and strong just doesn't have to be complicated.

The keys to making it work:

• Start with a realistic idea of your one-rep max, and follow Wendler's instructions to base all training weights on 90% of that max. You can make it really easy on yourself by spending a couple of workouts working up to a four-rep-max set of each of the four core lifts. Your 4RM should be about 90% of your 1RM. Once you have that 4RM, you can skip a step in your calculations and just use it for all your subsequent percentages.

• The final set of your core lift in each workout is the one that produces mass and strength, so give it everything you have, and get as many reps as you can with that weight. (The exceptions are the deloading workouts in Week 4. You're giving your muscles a break, not trying to establish new PRs.)

• When you start a new four-week cycle, add five pounds to your 1RMs for bench and shoulder presses and 10 pounds for squats and deadlifts, and recalculate training weights using the new numbers.

• It works best if you train four times a week, although three times a week could work as well, as long as you train all four core lifts before repeating. (In other words, don't skip one so you can do the other three once each week.) Don't train more than two days in a row.

• If you want to see the results of 5/3/1, you have to do the program as written. As soon as you start customizing it, it's no longer 5/3/1. You might like your own version of it better than Wendler's original, but you can't attribute your success or failure to the guy who wrote the program unless you're actually doing the program as he wrote it.
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Gammal 2009-11-06, 23:37   #54
emi23j
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hahaha sköna kommentarer han har Jim.

Det finns ju dock vissa som använder Jim Wendlers 5-3-1 tillsammans med Westside for skinny bastards. Men tror enbart att dem använder hans princip om deloads var fjärde vecka.
Tror även att defranco rekommenderade detta på hans hemsida (Q&A sektionen)
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Gammal 2009-11-07, 00:28   #55
Matsa
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Bra inlägg där Damien! Ett par små funderingar bara.

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Om man utgår från att man maxar 150kg så är 90% av det 135kg. Så första 1an blir 127.5. Vecka 39 kommer jag att tangera en 1a på 150 och det blir först vecka 43 som det blir ett nytt PB-försök på endast 2.5kg mer. Vecka 55 har jag enligt schemat gjort en ökning på 10kg, dvs drygt 1år.
Blir det inte lite galet nu när du mäter progressionen med 1RM i ett program som inte innehåller några egentliga maxningar på 1RM?

"Notice that it's "rep records," and not "one-rep max." "Most people live and die by their one-rep max. To me, this is foolish and short sighted. If your squat goes from 225 x 6 to 225 x 9, you've gotten stronger."

Som jag har förstått det så bör man klara mer än en repetition när det står 1+. Alltså kommer det när man kommer upp till sitt tidigare 1RM på 150kg inte att vara en tangering utan snarare en ökning med typ 2-5 reps?

Förstår du vad jag menar?

En lösning skulle kunna vara att jobba sig upp till sitt faktiska 1RM med jämna mellanrum och utifrån detta justera vikterna i programmet, och jag undrar om det inte är så det egentligen är tänkt.

En annan sak jag undrar är om man klarar avsevärt många fler repetitioner än målet (t.ex 7 reps när det står 1+ på schemat), vad finns det för riktlinjer då? I ett sådant fall torde det ju vara läge att öka med lite mer än 2.5kg. Får nog fan ta och beställa den där boken snart, jag börjar bli nyfiken.
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lol, det finns mkt gemensamt mellan Knutbysekten och knäböjare.
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Det roliga är att du har nästintill samma profilbild som Matsa. En smällfet marklyftare. Det är så man dör alltså
"Små delikata rörelser..."
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Gammal 2009-11-07, 00:37   #56
Damien Thorne
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Det var ett mycket bra svar. Tänkte aldrig på det.

Det är alltså ett repsprogram


Jag tänkte också på det där att man skulle kunna använda maxrepparna där det står 1rep som failuretest. Att man kanske ökar 5kg istället för 2.5 om man gör tex fler än 3 reps.

Blir också sugen på att skaffa boken, men jag är för snål för det. Få se om jag kan hitta den gratis nånstans.
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Gammal 2009-11-07, 01:07   #57
kalajset
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Jag är ingen styrkelyftare, men jag har läst på en del om programmet då jag funderade på att använda det några månader i vinter. Kom dock underfund med samma sak som Damien Thorne, nämligen att det verkligen är ett mycket långdraget program, bäddat för väldigt stabila, men dock tämligen långsamma ökningar, troligen t om så långsamma att det inte är någon idé alls att köra det endast några få månader. Absolut inget fel på det i sak, det är ju så det är uppbyggt, och det finns ju en mycket, mycket klok grundtanke bakom, men det känns verkligen som man måste ge programmet förhållandevis lång tid för att det ska vara någon idé att köra det ÖHT. Funderar på att köra det 12 månader+ efter nästa deff för egen del.

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En lösning skulle kunna vara att jobba sig upp till sitt faktiska 1RM med jämna mellanrum och utifrån detta justera vikterna i programmet, och jag undrar om det inte är så det egentligen är tänkt.
Som jag förstått programmet, så är just en grundpelare tanken att man hela tiden jobbar "under sin förmåga", (ja, detta är naturligtvis inte rätt uttryck egentligen, men jag är trött), förutom på dessa "plusdagar". Man använder hela tiden teoretiska 1RM-siffror, och utgår hela tiden från just 90% av detta, så småningom, teoretiska 1RM. (Enda gången man använder ett verkligt 1RM är i första cykeln). Något annat har jag inte läst någonstans, så jag antar att detta verkligen är en pelarna i programmet.

Citat:
En annan sak jag undrar är om man klarar avsevärt många fler repetitioner än målet (t.ex 7 reps när det står 1+ på schemat), vad finns det för riktlinjer då? I ett sådant fall torde det ju vara läge att öka med lite mer än 2.5kg. Får nog fan ta och beställa den där boken snart, jag börjar bli nyfiken.
Kanske missförstår, men enda gången det står just 1+ på schemat är ju när man lyfter på 95% av sitt 1RM, och då blir det ju av naturliga skäl inte särskilt många fler repetitioner än ett fåtal, samma grundprincip gäller alla "maxningar", på 3+ är det ju t ex 90% av 1RM som gäller.

I övrigt verkar Jim sådär nöjd över att folk kör t ex Westside for Skinny Bastards, samtidigt, han verkar poängtera just att han tycker att detta program ska köras för sig, och självklart också det som redan nämts - att så fort man börjar ändra grundparametrarna i programmet så är det inte hans längre, hur bra det nu än skulle fungera.
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Gammal 2009-11-07, 01:21   #58
Matsa
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En annan sak jag undrar är om man klarar avsevärt många fler repetitioner än målet (t.ex 7 reps när det står 1+ på schemat), vad finns det för riktlinjer då? I ett sådant fall torde det ju vara läge att öka med lite mer än 2.5kg. Får nog fan ta och beställa den där boken snart, jag börjar bli nyfiken.
Kanske missförstår, men enda gången det står just 1+ på schemat är ju när man lyfter på 95% av sitt 1RM, och då blir det ju av naturliga skäl inte särskilt många fler repetitioner än ett fåtal, samma grundprincip gäller alla "maxningar", på 3+ är det ju t ex 90% av 1RM som gäller.
Men styrkeökningar följer ju inte alltid en rak linje, ibland har man en period när man av någon anledning ökar bättre än vanligt. Därtill kan man ju få en aha upplevelse när det gäller tekniken som gör att man orkar lyfta mer. Det är detta jag vill veta hur programmet hanterar.
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lol, det finns mkt gemensamt mellan Knutbysekten och knäböjare.
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Det roliga är att du har nästintill samma profilbild som Matsa. En smällfet marklyftare. Det är så man dör alltså
"Små delikata rörelser..."
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Gammal 2009-11-07, 06:58   #59
emi23j
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Citat:
En lösning skulle kunna vara att jobba sig upp till sitt faktiska 1RM med jämna mellanrum och utifrån detta justera vikterna i programmet, och jag undrar om det inte är så det egentligen är tänkt.
Ja man justerar kontinuerligt denna vikt.

Citat:
Som jag förstått programmet, så är just en grundpelare tanken att man hela tiden jobbar "under sin förmåga", (ja, detta är naturligtvis inte rätt uttryck egentligen, men jag är trött), förutom på dessa "plusdagar". Man använder hela tiden teoretiska 1RM-siffror, och utgår hela tiden från just 90% av detta, så småningom, teoretiska 1RM. (Enda gången man använder ett verkligt 1RM är i första cykeln). Något annat har jag inte läst någonstans, så jag antar att detta verkligen är en pelarna i programmet.
Om jag minns rätt avdet jag läste av programmet så gör man ju ett all-out set vecka 3. vilket betyder att om man blivit starkare så justerar man upp vikterna.
Ja man jobbar i princip under sin förmåga förutom 1-set i veckan så man kör all-out. som jag har förstått det.
Sen så tycker ju wendler att man ska räkna ned ytterliggare från dessa 90% och utgå från detta.
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Gammal 2009-11-07, 10:19   #60
Control_61
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Jag har precis börjat köra 5-3-1. Har till och med köpt boken.


Det är ett ganska enkelt program, jag håller mig alltid till 3 övningar per pass och "maxar" repsen.
Till exempel denna veckan fick jag 15 reps benböj, 14 bänkpress, 12 marklyft och 11 militärpress.

Anledningen till att jag började är att det faktiskt finns en inbyggd progression i det.
Har tidigare kört tungt som fasen och trott att man ökat. Bara för att inse att man inte lagt på mer än 10kg i övningen på ett år.
Även om 5-3-1 är en långsam progression så kan man lägga på 60kg (12x5kg) på ett år i benböj och marklyft om man följer progressionen...
Det lär ju inte gå så lätt i verkligheten men om jag ökade med 25% av det hade jag varit nöjd.




Angående att mixa WS4SB med 5-3-1 så gör Defranco själv det med de han tränar över en längre tidsperiod. Men med de han har en kortare tidsperiod kör han fortfarande "jobba upp till ett 3-5 rep max".

Och när han använder 5-3-1 gör han bara det på bänkpress och benböj på max-effort dagarna. Dynamic Effort och Repetition Effort dagarna är precis dom de brukar vara.
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