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Visa fullständig version : L-Glutamin?


Dalì
2004-11-08, 21:45
Kanske det är fel forum att frågapå men har ni här märkt ngn skillnad på märken av L-Glutamin då ni använt det? Och vad är det som ni har märkt att L-Glutaminet gjort?

King Grub
2004-11-08, 21:49
Vad förväntar du dig av det?

"The purpose of this study was to determine if high-dose glutamine ingestion affected weightlifting performance...

These data indicate that the short-term ingestion of glutamine does not enhance weightlifting performance in resistance-trained men."

J Strength Cond Res. 2002 Feb;16(1):157-60.

"We conclude that glutamine supplementation during resistance training has no significant effect on muscle performance, body composition or muscle protein degradation in young healthy adults."

Eur J Appl Physiol. 2001 Dec;86(2):142-9.

"In conclusion, our results show that decreased plasma and muscle glutamine levels have no effect on whole-body protein turnover or muscle protein kinetics. Therefore, it is unlikely that, in vivo, the intracellular muscle concentration of glutamine is a major regulating factor in muscle protein kinetics."

Clin Sci (Lond). 1999 Jun;96(6):639-46.

"We conclude that intravenous infusion of amino acids increases the fractional rate of mixed muscle protein synthesis, but addition of glutamine to the amino acid mixture does not further stimulate muscle protein synthesis rate in healthy young men and women."

Metabolism. 2000 Dec;49(12):1555-60.

"The purpose was to determine if glutamine supplementation would prevent a loss of lean mass in athletes during a 12-day weight reduction program. It was hypothesized that supplementation would spare lean body mass. Subjects (n=18) exercised and dieted to create a 4186kJ· day-1 energy deficit and a 8372 kJ· day-1 energy deficit on days 1-5, days 6-12, respectively. The glutamine (GLN) group (n=9) ingested 0.35 g· kg-1 body mass of glutamine while a placebo was administered to the remaining subjects. Body mass (BM), lean body mass (LBM) and fat mass (FM), were measured at days 0, 6, and 12. GLN and placebo groups both lost significant amounts of BM, LBM and FM. There were no significant differences between groups. The findings indicate little benefit for retention of lean mass with supplementation of glutamine during a short-term weight reduction program."

Journal of Sports Science and Medicine (2003) 2, 163-168

Dalì
2004-11-08, 22:00
Typiskt. Jag trodde givetvis att det skulle dyka opp några som skulle säga att de fick bra effekter av et.Men inte alltså.

mangemani
2004-11-08, 22:18
L-glutamin tar upp proteinet lite bättre va?alltså det använder proteinet bättre....dåligt ställd fråga,men men

z_bumbi
2004-11-09, 08:18
L-glutamin tar upp proteinet lite bättre va?alltså det använder proteinet bättre....dåligt ställd fråga,men men

Har du problem med tarmens insida, tarmludden t ex, så kan det hjälpa då tarmen producerar mer tarmludd om den får mycket mat dvs glutamin.
För friska personer som äter tillräckligt med protein är detta inget problem däremot.

ztaphy
2004-11-10, 20:05
Så det är ingen mening att ta Glutamin alls då? :confused:

King Grub
2004-11-10, 20:06
Så det är ingen mening att ta Glutamin alls då? :confused:

Vi säger så här: inga studier har visat någon synbar effekt på friska, styrketränande individer.

ztaphy
2004-11-10, 20:18
Ok!

Doctor Snuggles
2004-11-10, 20:35
Immunförsvaret förbättras. Vissa cancer patienter och HIV patienter tar Glutamin för att förbättra just immunförsvaret. Personligen så har jag märkt att det stämmer, då jag inte blivit sjuk fastän under exakt samma omständigheter (förutom glutaminet då) , d.v.s. tung träning/ sjukdomskänsla i kroppen, så har jag blivit det förut.

King Grub
2004-11-10, 20:46
Vad som är relevant för kritiskt sjuka cancer- och HIV-patienter är dock inte nödvändigtvis relevant för friska, tränande individer.

Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1998 Jun;30(6):856-62. Effect of glutamine supplementation on changes in the immune system induced by repeated exercise.

J Appl Physiol. 2002 Sep;93(3):813-22., Exercise-induced immunodepression- plasma glutamine is not the link.

Am J Physiol Cell Physiol. 2001 Oct;281(4):C1259-65. Effect of glutamine supplementation on exercise-induced changes in lymphocyte function.

"This study does not support the idea that glutamine plays a mechanistic role in exercise-induced immune changes."

Angående HIV-patienter:

"Addition of glutamine in vitro did not normalize the lower proliferation in the HIV-seropositive group or the attenuated proliferation seen during exercise in both groups."

J Appl Physiol. 1995 Jul;79(1):146-50. Effects of glutamine on the immune system: influence of muscular exercise and HIV infection.

Knäböj
2004-11-10, 21:10
"L-Glutamine


L-glutamine is the most abundant free amino acid in the body and also the most abundant amino acid the bloodstream. Originally considered to be nonessential because it can be readily synthesized by the enzyme glutamine synthetase, it has been established that glutamine can become essential under states of severe illness or injury, in which glutamine stores can become depleted [7, 12]. Glutamine is a precursor to glucose and many peptides, proteins, and nucleotides, and functions as an energy substrate for most cells [1, 8, 12]. Some areas where glutamine plays particularly important roles are the brain, immune system, skeletal muscle, and GI tract. In the immune system, glutamine is used as a metabolic fuel by fibroblasts, lymphocytes, and macrophages, and is also used for nucleotide synthesis. Skeletal muscle is the primary storage site for glutamine, and also the primary source of glutamine for other tissues. The GI tract uses glutamine as a fuel source, and uses more glutamine than any other area of the body.

The primary focus of research on the utility of supplemental L-glutamine has focused on situations of severe metabolic stress [1]. Glutamine has been researched in a wide variety of illnesses, including cancer, heart disease, and AIDS [3, 6]. Multiple meta-analyses have found that glutamine has many beneficial effects in critically ill patients, and glutamine may reduce mortality rates in long-term Intensive Care Unit patients by as much as 20% [1, 2]. Glutamine functions through multiple mechanisms of action, such as improving gastrointestinal tract health and immune health, acting as a precursor to glutathione, and decreasing ammonia buildup in the liver [1]. Along with HMB and arginine, glutamine helps decrease lean tissue wasting in cancer and AIDS patients, and glutamine prevents muscle protein breakdown from dexamethasone, a synthetic glucocortcoid [6, 11]. It is because of these benefits in catabolic states that it is postulated that glutamine supplementation would be beneficial for those engaged in intense exercise, an issue which is quite controversial.

It has been found in many studies that prolonged, exhaustive exercise causes a decrease in plasma glutamine levels. However, even after running a marathon, glutamine levels are only low for a period of 6-9 hours [9]. One study examined the glutamine levels in various types of athletes and found that some athletes, such as powerlifters, had particularly low plasma glutamine [9]. Overtraining has also been associated with a larger decrease in glutamine levels [9, 16]. In turn, it has been proposed that this decline can have a variety of negative effects that may be corrected with supplemental glutamine. Some of the proposed benefits of glutamine supplementation for athletes include increased immune function, increased protein synthesis, and increased rate of glycogen synthesis.

A central issue in the debate over whether glutamine supplements are beneficial is whether or not they actually increase levels of glutamine in the bloodstream. Most of the studies in states of critical illness utilize IV glutamine, and are therefore inapplicable. When glutamine is orally administered, a significant portion of it is taken up by the gut, where it is primarily oxidized, but also used to form glucose and for other purposes [22]. After ingestion of L-glutamine, about 50-75% of it is used by the gut depending on circumstances [9, 13, 14]. The amount that is extracted by the gut appears to be inversely correlated with dose – as more glutamine is administered, relatively less is taken up by the gut [14]. Despite the amount that doesn't make it to the bloodstream, many studies have found that orally administered L-glutamine still significantly raises plasma glutamine levels. For example, one study found that 5 g of orally administered glutamine doubled plasma glutamine within 30 minutes in healthy humans [16]. On the other hand, protein-bound glutamine (such as glutamine from casein or carob protein) has failed to significantly increase plasma glutamine in both human and animal studies where free L-glutamine was effective [11, 20]. When this information is put together, it would seem a high dose (at least 5-10 g) of free-form L-glutamine is the most effective way to increase levels of glutamine in the bloodstream.

Although L-glutamine supplements can significantly increase plasma glutamine, this does not necessarily equate to an increase in exercise performance or recovery ability. Multiple studies have been done, and none have yet shown that glutamine significantly improves exercise performance. In one study, 31 subjects were administered ~45 g of glutamine or placebo (maltodextrin) daily for six weeks along with resistance training. Compared to the placebo group, the glutamine group had slight improvements in their one rep maximum for squat and bench press and knee extension peak torque, as well as increased lean tissue mass and decreased markers of protein breakdown, but none of the differences were statistically significant [18]. Another study found that acute ingestion of glutamine did not improve weightlifting performance [21], but only six subjects were used, and given that the proposed mechanisms of action for glutamine are recovery-related, one would not expect a difference after acute ingestion in the first place. It seems that if glutamine does make a difference in exercise performance, it is a small one, especially at practical doses.

Beyond the studies that directly assess performance, there are also a number of studies on the effects glutamine has on other variables. Some researchers argue that the fall in glutamine levels after exhausting exercise may be related to suppression of the immune system. One investigation of 14 studies found that the self-reported incidence of illness in marathon runners was 32% lower in subjects who had consumed glutamine [9]. However, the mechanism for this is unknown, as most studies have found that glutamine fails to effect exercise-related changes in immune parameters [7, 9, 15]. Two studies have found that glutamine slightly blunts the postexercise increase in circulating neutrophils, but it is unknown whether this is clinically significant [9, 15]. One study also found that among certain marathon runners, glutamine speeded the restoration of circulating lymphocytes [9]. The differences in findings is probably related to differences in study design. It could be that glutamine does not significantly alter the magnitude of postexercise immune changes, but does speed the rate of recovery, especially in the case of extremely taxing exercise such as marathon running.

Another area in which glutamine has been explored is glycogen resynthesis. In one study, glutamine increased postexercise muscle glycogen concentration compared to alanine plus glycine providing an equal amount of calories. It has been argued that glutamine increases the activity of hepatic glycogen synthase, based on in vitro studies [5]. However, it could also be that glutamine is more readily converted to glucose than other amino acids. Either way, carbohydrates are still about three times as effective at promoting glycogen synthesis [19], and when glutamine was added to a glucose polymer drink it did not further promote muscle glycogen storage, although it appeared to increase liver glycogen storage [5]. Another study found glutamine alone did not effect glycogen resynthesis after glycogen depleting exercise [18], so the effect of glutamine in this area is once again controversial.

A final contention made by glutamine advocates is that it increases protein synthesis. This is based primarily on in vitro experiments, which have found that glutamine stimulates protein synthesis and inhibits protein breakdown [14]. However, in vivo, it appears that supplemental L-glutamine does not affect protein synthesis or increase glutamine levels in muscle tissue in healthy humans, even after IV administration [14, 17]. Increased glutamine availability does increase glutamine flux in muscle tissue (i.e., both uptake and outflow are increased but tissue levels are not changed), but this may limit transport mechanisms for other amino acids [17]. These studies do not rule out the potential for a small effect on protein synthesis of supplemental L-glutamine combined with an exercise program, but do indicate that it is not likely to make a significant difference.
Finally, there are a number of facts that can make glutamine supplementation less appealing. To maintain continually elevated levels of glutamine, one would have to supplement at least every two hours [16]. Glutamine administration also inhibits de novo synthesis of the amino acid in humans, which may make long-term supplementation less effective [20]. In healthy individuals, supplemental glutamine may decrease glutathione levels in some tissues by causing negative feedback [10]. Also, glutamine decreases vascular nitric oxide (NO) production [4]. There is also some concern that the metabolic by-products of glutamine may be toxic in large amounts [18]. However, there have been few reports of adverse events in clinical trials, even with large amounts of glutamine [1, 18].

In conclusion, few studies have demonstrated any sort of conclusive benefit from L-glutamine supplementation in athletes, although the existing evidence does support a small benefit. The most promising effect is a reduced incidence of infection after exhausting exercise, and in this case 5-10 g preworkout and/or postworkout may be effective. It may be especially useful during times of overtraining or high stress, such as on a diet, but this is only in theory. There is little evidence for a direct anabolic or performance enhancing effect of glutamine.

REFERENCES:
1. Curr Opin Crit Care. 2003 Aug;9(4):279-85. Glutamine and acute illness. Wernerman J.

2. Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care. 2003 Mar;6(2):217-22. Role of L-glutamine in critical illness: new insights. Kelly D, Wischmeyer PE.

3. Nutrition. 2002 Feb;18(2):123-6. Is glutamine beneficial in ischemic heart disease? Khogali SE, Pringle SD, Weryk BV, Rennie MJ.

4. Clin Nutr. 1998 Feb;17(1):11-4. Dietary glutamine supplementation reduces plasma nitrate levels in rats. Houdijk AP, Visser JJ, Rijnsburger ER, Teerlink T, van Leeuwen PA.

5. J Appl Physiol. 1999 Jun;86(6):1770-7. Effect of oral glutamine on whole body carbohydrate storage during recovery from exhaustive exercise. Bowtell JL, Gelly K, Jackman ML, Patel A, Simeoni M, Rennie MJ.

6. Am J Surg. 2002 Apr;183(4):471-9. Reversal of cancer-related wasting using oral supplementation with a combination of beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate, arginine, and glutamine. May PE, Barber A, D'Olimpio JT, Hourihane A, Abumrad NN.

7. Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care. 2002 Jan;5(1):69-75. Glutamine: clinical applications and mechanisms of action. Neu J, DeMarco V, Li N.

8. Int J Biochem Cell Biol. 2002 May;34(5):439-58. Glutamine and its relationship with intracellular redox status, oxidative stress and cell proliferation/death. Mates JM, Perez-Gomez C, Nunez de Castro I, Asenjo M, Marquez J.

9. Nutrition. 2002 May;18(5):371-5. Can glutamine modify the apparent immunodepression observed after prolonged, exhaustive exercise? Castell LM.

10. Nutrition. 2002 May;18(5):367-70. Impact of oral L-glutamine on glutathione, glutamine, and glutamate blood levels in volunteers. Valencia E, Marin A, Hardy G.

11. Nutrition. 2001 Jan;17(1):35-40. Effect of glutamine supplementation of the diet on tissue protein synthesis rate of glucocorticoid-treated rats. Boza JJ, Turini M, Moennoz D, Montigon F, Vuichoud J, Gueissaz N, Gremaud G, Pouteau E, Piguet-Welsch C, Finot PA, Ballevre O.

12. Altern Med Rev. 1999 Aug;4(4):239-48. Therapeutic considerations of L-glutamine: a review of the literature. Miller AL.

13. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Apr;280(4):E669-75. Glutamine supplementation promotes anaplerosis but not oxidative energy delivery in human skeletal muscle. Bruce M, Constantin-Teodosiu D, Greenhaff PL, Boobis LH, Williams C, Bowtell JL.

14. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Feb;280(2):E323-33. Whole body and skeletal muscle glutamine metabolism in healthy subjects. Mittendorfer B, Volpi E, Wolfe RR.

15. Am J Physiol Cell Physiol. 2001 Oct;281(4):C1259-65. Effect of glutamine supplementation on exercise-induced changes in lymphocyte function. Krzywkowski K, Petersen EW, Ostrowski K, Kristensen JH, Boza J, Pedersen BK.

16. Amino Acids. 2001;20(1):49-61. The relation between glutamine and the immunodepression observed in exercise. Castell LM, Newsholme EA.

17. Clin Physiol. 2001 Jul;21(4):478-89. The effect of glutamine on protein balance and amino acid flux across arm and leg tissues in healthy volunteers. Svanberg E, Moller-Loswick AC, Matthews DE, Korner U, Lundholm K.

18. Eur J Appl Physiol. 2001 Dec;86(2):142-9. Effect of glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults. Candow DG, Chilibeck PD, Burke DG, Davison KS, Smith-Palmer T.

19. J Nutr. 2001 Sep;131(9 Suppl):2488S-90S; discussion 2496S-7S. Interaction between glutamine availability and metabolism of glycogen, tricarboxylic acid cycle intermediates and glutathione. Rennie MJ, Bowtell JL, Bruce M, Khogali SE.

19. J Nutr. 2001 Sep;131(9 Suppl):2556S-61S. Assessment of the safety of glutamine and other amino acids. Garlick PJ.

20. Nutrition. 2000 Nov-Dec;16(11-12):1037-42. Plasma glutamine response to enteral administration of glutamine in human volunteers (free glutamine versus protein-bound glutamine). Boza JJ, Maire J, Bovetto L, Ballevre O.

21. J Strength Cond Res. 2002 Feb;16(1):157-60. The effects of high-dose glutamine ingestion on weightlifting performance. Antonio J, Sanders MS, Kalman D, Woodgate D, Street C.

22. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2000 Apr;278(4):E593-602. Oxidation of glutamine by the splanchnic bed in humans. Haisch M, Fukagawa NK, Matthews DE."

Styx
2004-11-10, 22:14
Immunförsvaret förbättras. Vissa cancer patienter och HIV patienter tar Glutamin för att förbättra just immunförsvaret. Personligen så har jag märkt att det stämmer, då jag inte blivit sjuk fastän under exakt samma omständigheter (förutom glutaminet då) , d.v.s. tung träning/ sjukdomskänsla i kroppen, så har jag blivit det förut.

Du har i sånna fall lyckats bevisa det man misslyckats med i vetenskapliga försök, att påvisa att glutamin har effekt på immunförsvaret hos friska tränande individer.

King Grub
2004-11-11, 07:43
Du har i sånna fall lyckats bevisa det man misslyckats med i vetenskapliga försök, att påvisa att glutamin har effekt på immunförsvaret hos friska tränande individer.

Underskatta inte placebons mirakulösa effekter.

Knäböj
2004-11-11, 09:33
Kan inte Eiselt och Fairing,som båda säljer L-Glutamin,förklara vad det primära syftet med produkten är?

:em:

Grahn
2004-11-11, 09:44
Det är bättre att som tränande lägga slantarna på mer eller bättre protein eller tex fiskolja imo.

TCOG
2004-11-11, 11:51
Journal of Sports Science and Medicine (2003) 2, 163-168


denna studie är ju bara gjord under 12 dagar ;)

King Grub
2004-11-11, 11:52
Ja? Det är också bara en av hundratals studier.

Syftet med just den studien var att kolla just korttidseffekten.

EiseltUK
2004-11-11, 12:13
Glutamin har varit på tapeten tidigare. Flitiga forskarstudenter försöker överbevisa dem som använder glutamin om att det inte behövs. Trots detta ökar försäljningen av glutamin stadigt sedan flera år. Anledningen? Troligen för att kunderna tycker att effekten är i förhållande till priset.

Jag skulle tro att behovet av glutamintillskott minskar om man äter stora mängder protein och inte tränar så ofta. I vilket fall så kan glutamintillskott handla om timingen, av samma anledning som att man tar hydrolysat.

/ Henrik

"If recovery between exercise bouts is inadequate, the acute effects of exercise on plasma glutamine level may be cumulative, since overload training has been shown to result in low plasma glutamine levels requiring prolonged recovery. "

- Rowbottom DG, Keast D, Morton AR. "The emerging role of glutamine as an indicator of exercise stress and overtraining." Sports Med 1996 Feb;21(2):80-97

Grahn
2004-11-11, 12:22
Tja men då man kan få l-glutamin samt massor av andra bra aminosyror i tex vassle så ser inte jag meningen med l-glutamin separat själv för den generelle tränande.

Som sagt heldre då ett bättre protein eller mer av det man tar för pengarna.'

Att använda försäljning som argument bevisar mest att folk går på vad som helst, vilket vi väl redan visste.

King Grub
2004-11-11, 12:29
"If recovery between exercise bouts is inadequate, the acute effects of exercise on plasma glutamine level may be cumulative, since overload training has been shown to result in low plasma glutamine levels requiring prolonged recovery. "

- Rowbottom DG, Keast D, Morton AR. "The emerging role of glutamine as an indicator of exercise stress and overtraining." Sports Med 1996 Feb;21(2):80-97

"In conclusion, if methodological issues are carefully considered, plasma glutamine level may be useful as an indicator of an overtrained state."

Samma studie.

Är det inte överträning som är problemet här?

En sex år färskare studie:

"In fact, intracellular glutamine concentration may not be compromised when plasma levels are decreased postexercise. In addition, a number of recent intervention studies with glutamine feeding demonstrate that, although the plasma concentration of glutamine is kept constant during and after acute, strenuous exercise, glutamine supplementation does not abolish the postexercise decrease in in vitro cellular immunity, including low lymphocyte number, impaired lymphocyte proliferation, impaired natural killer and lymphokine-activated killer cell activity, as well as low production rate and concentration of salivary IgA."

J Appl Physiol. 2002 Sep;93(3):813-22.

EiseltUK
2004-11-11, 12:37
Är det inte överträning som är problemet här?

Definitivt. Om man äter mycket protein och inte tränar för mycket/ofta/länge så finns det kanske inte så stor poäng med att ta extra glutamin. Men som jag nämnde ovan så kan det också handla om timingen, t ex direkt efter träning, då du vill fylla på med det som kroppen har allra största behov av. Glutaminomsättningen är med största sannolikhet rubbad efter ett hårt träningspass och ta extra glutamin är nog inte helt fel. Kroppen kan givetvis återsätta balansen själv, men det tar tid och risken skulle kunna vara att man förlorar tid i "möjlighetsförnstret" efter träningen. Dessutom finns det ju en del som talar för attt glutamin påferkar glykogeninlagringen positivt.

/ Henrik

Dalì
2004-11-11, 12:41
Påverkar L-Glutamin stora procentenheter glykogenlagringen eller handlar det om några få 0,0049%? Förklara gärna, tack?

King Grub
2004-11-11, 12:47
Påverkar L-Glutamin stora procentenheter glykogenlagringen eller handlar det om några få 0,0049%? Förklara gärna, tack?

"BCAA ingestion does not appear to affect fatigue during prolonged exercise, there is little support from controlled studies to recommend glutamine ingestion for enhanced immune function, and although glutamine stimulates muscle glycogen synthesis, its addition to carbohydrate supplements provides no additional benefit over ingestion of carbohydrate alone."

Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2001 Mar;11(1):133-45.

Du får större effekt av en vassle/kolhydratdrink.

"It is concluded that ingestion of a glutamine/carbohydrate mixture does not increase the rate of glycogen resynthesis in muscle. Glycogen resynthesis rates were higher, although not statistically significant, after ingestion of the drink containing the wheat and whey protein hydrolysate compared to ingestion of the control and free glutamine drinks.."

Int J Sports Med. 2000 Jan;21(1):25-30.

Dalì
2004-11-11, 13:43
okey då underlättar det ännu mera att skippa ett inköp av L-Glutamin. och samtidigt lägga de pengarna på ännu mera protein.
:D